16 bit cd through a DAC.

I must add, these views are how I see the world, and maybe not representative of the views of others!

AussieSteve posted:

I have one HDCD, a Bryan Ferry one, and it is obviously superior to the others. When I choose a DAC, will it elevate the 16 bit recording to sound as good or better with say HDCD or DSD?    

Hi Aussiesteve, perhaps two different things here... A DAC converts the digital representation of audio to an analogue or continuous version of that audio, as I am sure you know.. The DAC can't create additional information to what is there, so can't elevate the audio in that sense, but the conversion and what is known as the reconstruction process, is not an exact process.. It ultimately adds artefacts and/or looses information .. and it is this we  choose with our DACs, and higher quality DACs as well as more recent DAC designs (and here I also include the DSP, which is big determiner on how reconstruction is done) will be be able to convert  and reconstruct the same or more capably for less cost.

You mention HDCD, this uses audio processing to expand the dynamic range of certain sounds  within a 16bit recording... Think of it a bit like the Dolby C of Redbook CD.. To take advantage of it your DAC with its DSP will ignore the HDCD triggers... It will play fine but may sound a more compressed than if playing through a HDCD decoder.

You talk about converter chip sets.. Yes the NDS and NDAC do use old converter designs, but the multibit ladder DAC made by Texas Instruments (ne Burr Brown) is still highly regarded, albeit a relatively expensive device. The DSP reconstruction algorithms on the NDAC and NDS ( and the NDX for that matter) are the same, but the implementations vary... In this area things like electrical nose, clock stability and precision are extremely important. You mention FPGAs, these are increasingly used to provide very powerful and effective DSP processors with low electrical nose... increasing the performance of the DAC they are used within.

i hope these ramblings are of some interest.

Simon

I can understand your wish to retain your CD collection. I'm the same.  It's tempting to want the very latest technological development in a DAC, too.  At the end of the day, though, all that matters is how good the DAC sounds.  I've been very impressed by Naim's DAC which responds well to better PSUs. It got a very worthwhile performance boost with the free firmware upgrade last year.  And relative to other Naim stuff, e.g. the NDS, I also think it represents great VFM (the Chord Hugo favoured by Simon-in-Suffolk is even cheaper).  So if you want to keep your current CDP, 282 etc and hanker after an all-Naim system you might do well to see if using your CDP's digital output to an nDAC pleases you.

Mike

G'Day Steve,  outside of the ways of HDCD via DAC per Simon's post,   if you do decide to convert to streaming - give it a burl,  you know you want to    - your HDCD's can be ripped as 24-bit with a dBpoweramp DSP.     Attached pic shows its ripped to full 24-bit with 2116kbps,  but I believe it plays as quasia 20-bit.    Maybe Simon can explain that part.    Its been a while since I heard HDCD as a silver disc but I do recall being impressed with a perception of sounding even better as a rip when I first listened on NDX.    

Thanks Simon, MDS and Mike, your info is very much appreciated. I am a 1st year apprentice in higher-fi, and have been pushing parts of my brain to understand stuff I never thought I would or could.  I struggle with this end of audio because it is so foreign to me, but it's very interesting. I confess, I want it all and having a meagre budget it is hard to figure out what to invest in.

Sorry my post looked garbled.. I meant to say if your DAC doesn't detect the HDCD triggers it will still play, but be a little more compressed than it otherwise should be. This triggers are embedded in the least significant bits within certain PCM samples.

Mike, yes when the HDCD expansion is applied within the signal processing stage , approximately 4 bits of extra dynamic range is created. Now if this expansion is done by a HDCD DSP emulator such as used in certain rippers, the HDCD triggers are detected and processed as part of the ripping process, and so a 24 bit file is created that emulates and provides a reasonable representation of  the HDCD DSP expansion. I understand that with the HDCD emulator that is freely available on the web, most but not all the HDCD commands are processed. Some of the HDCD processing does require Pacific Microsonics hardware, such as used in Naim CD players.

Simon