Speakers for very low level listening

Few speakers will do better than your Harbeths (or for that matter other other models based on the classic BBC monitor construction and tuning principles).

I'm not saying that there aren't speakers that are better at low levels, just that it'll be a difficult search to find anything that's really significantly better.  I use a pair of Spendor SP2s and they are also quite good at low level (better than most I've heard, and I've not heard anything that's definitely better than them), but I also don't think they're actually any better than the Harbeths.

I recommend considering Electrosratic speakers.  Quad 57 or some of the newer versions.  I find details are well preserved as low volume and this is not the case for cone speakers.

Shahinian speakers manage to sound balanced and convincing at low volume. SL2 from Naim were good in this regard too for me.

Paul Quigley ie posted:

I recommend considering Electrosratic speakers.  Quad 57 or some of the newer versions.  I find details are well preserved as low volume and this is not the case for cone speakers.

Agreed. I use one ESL, and it is magnificent on ultra-low listening levels as well as normal. 

ATB from George

Thanks for the ESL suggestion. How do they behave very close to the back wall (I do not have much leeway there)?

ELS speakers will not work well close to the back wall. Maybe, maybe with some sound absorbing material behind... 

I would recommend speakers  that do not have a crossover circuit.          I use Reference 3A Veena floorstanders that has a main broadband speaker connected directly to the speaker terminals. Has no crossover apart for a bass filter for the treble unit. Few other brands follow same principles like Totem and Wilson benesch.  In my experience having less circuitry in the box means more sound per pound, which means the bits that make the noise can do more without additional noise from other influences. Other speaker designs take different philosophy with crossovers - PMC for example tune a complex crossover to include boundary reflections within as a whole to the sound of its speakers.. Although need more watts to do it. Sitting near field and close at low volume its best to be more directly coupled .

In my experience, speakers that have tended to sound best at very low listening levels have also had highish sensitivity  (i.e. over 86dB/w), a benign load or simple crossovers. With the former you do need to be a bit careful with naim amps - very sensitive speakers of 90dB/w+ can sometimes exacerbate the low level "hiss" from the system.  However, Naim speakers are themselves fairly high in sensitivity, particularly the DBL at 91dB/w, and have no issues here so it probably depends on other factors including just how tipped up the top end is.  

ESL or horn speakers are best.

Get a good pair of headphones 

Chrissw19 posted:

Following my previous post, it looks like I listen at least 15 to 20 dB lower than the other contributors (between 50 and 60 db). I mainly listen to my Harbeth P3 (latest model). Are there any speakers that would perform better at these levels?

Thanks!

For a speaker the size of P3, that is about the best around in terms of low level listening.

If you can go up the ladder towards a M30.1 or C7, it should be better but I have not done a direct AB.

Enjoo,

My main concern with Harbeth M30s or C7s is that they need more space around them than the P3s, and Chris has expressed concern about that (re ESLs).  They need that extra free space to develop that wonderful lucid midrange that Harbeth's have, without the extra free space they sound a little more congested.

The other point is that P3s are near field monitors where as M30s and C7s are mid field monitors; if you sit too close to the latter you start to get acoustic anomalies in the crossover region.

HUGE, yes I believe your concerns are valid. It seems (like me), you have limited space and need to be careful with room interaction from larger speakers. The weakness of the P3 is the lack of bass extension. I believe looking for similarly sized, room friendly speakers with better bass extension should (at least on paper) be the direction.

Sorry I do not have specific answers for you.

Chris,

What are you specifically looking to improve in the sound at low level?
Are you just after more / better bass?
Do you want something else improved?

Well, thanks to everyone for the different suggestions. I'm not as technical as some of you. If I had to choose one improvement, it would be to make the sound more realistic and more detailed.

It's not clear from your profile what source and amp you are using with the Harbeths. Perhaps you are looking at the wrong part of the chain. 

Chris, are you comparing the SU + P3s to the NAC 202 + NAP 200 + nSat / nSub setup?
That's not a fair comparison, the NAC 202 + NAP 200 will almost certainly win every time.

Chrissw19 posted:

Well, thanks to everyone for the different suggestions. I'm not as technical as some of you. If I had to choose one improvement, it would be to make the sound more realistic and more detailed.

The Graham Audio LS5/9 meet both of those criteria and maintain good balance at low listening levels.

Jan, have you done an AB between M30.1 and ls5/9?

Would love to why you obviously prefer the ls5/9 over the M30.1 since the later is supposed to be a modern take on the M30.1

I'm using the Superuniti with the Harbeth P3 but I'm not comparing with my other system which is in a different room (much larger).

Hi Engjoo,

Sorry, I have no experience with the M30.1.

Jan

Jan-Erik, have you written a review of the ls5/9?

Chrissw19 posted:

Thanks for the ESL suggestion. How do they behave very close to the back wall (I do not have much leeway there)?

ESL speakers need a lot of space behind. Useless when close to the back-wall. They are dipoles ... as much energy comes from the back, just like real natural instruments ...

Have a listen to Focal. High sensivity, clear and insightful at low levels... IMO.

Chrissw19 posted:

Jan-Erik, have you written a review of the ls5/9?

Yes, it's on the Graham Audio UK and USA websites.

Enjoy !

Jan