A Naim Integrated Comparable To NAC282/NAP250DR Standard

yes agreed Nigel, but that is not always possible.... having heard 272/250 DR I would say that is the current sweet spot in the Naim range. Yes even though I own 282/250DR

can't comment on SN2 but SN.

As good as it is , compared to 202/NAPSC/200 it''s a fair bit darker and congested sound and soundstage, not so luminous I'd say music breathes much more , more control and luminous sound through the pre/pow combo.

I'm pretty sure there's no way you could get comparable results with any Naim integrated to approach those levels, we're talking of something really different!

I would agree that the 272/250DR is the streaming sweet spot at the moment, particularly if you want to limit box count and are less interested in future upgrades. These may or may not be priorities for the OP, I don't know.

Not sure where the OP is based but if he is in the UK, there is a real opportunity to try all this stuff out at home. I have avoided several costly mistakes by 'trying before buying' at home.

IMO, The supernait2 with hicapDR is naim's end game integrated amp offering. Use any source you prefer. Low box count, need to pay alot more to justify a worthy jump to the next level.

The 282/250DR should beat the above, but it is double the cost. Many stay at this level without feeling the urge to upgrade. You need the napsc and hicapDR. So this a multibox set up.

You have the 202/200, so you have upgradititus.

Thanks for the responses. For some who suggested a home demo, I agree that is the best way forward to prevent a costly mistake. Unfortunately I am not in the UK and home demo is not possible. There are very few dealers who offer home demo at the place where I live. Bryston is one of them though the home demo would cost about £40.

Antonio1 posted:

can't comment on SN2 but SN.

As good as it is , compared to 202/NAPSC/200 it''s a fair bit darker and congested sound and soundstage, not so luminous I'd say music breathes much more , more control and luminous sound through the pre/pow combo.

I'm pretty sure there's no way you could get comparable results with any Naim integrated to approach those levels, we're talking of something really different!

I share the same experience. Your choice of words may upset some Nait XS owners. I would say the XS sounds warmer and more organic with less separation and detail. Some folks may relate this presentation to a more musical sound. On the other hand, the 202/200 sounds leaner and has better resolution, separation and detail. Some may regard the 202/200 as being analytical, hence less musical than the XS. In my system, I prefer the separates which brought an added refinement and sophistication to the sound. 

Adam Zielinski posted:

RYDER - I actually own and run both SN2 and 282/SCDR/250DR as two separate systems. Sources are almost the same in both cases.

The 'only' reason I still use SN2 is a very pragmatic one - I've ran out of space to stash all the boxes in the music room.

Don't get me wrong - it is a very good integrated amp with a decent headphone amp. But it's a bit unfair comparing it to a good separate set up. They are both fit for purpose. It's just that a purpose is a bit diferent in case of each one.

Thanks Adam. It is useful that you own both SN2 and 282/SC DR/250DR, and I agree it is "unfair" or improper to compare both amps as each has their own merits and purpose. I am just curious on the level of performance of the SN2. Nonetheless, judging from the responses here, I think I may already have the answer to my question. 

Cheers.

ryder. posted:

Thanks for the responses. For some who suggested a home demo, I agree that is the best way forward to prevent a costly mistake. Unfortunately I am not in the UK and home demo is not possible. There are very few dealers who offer home demo at the place where I live. Bryston is one of them though the home demo would cost about £40.

 

Fair enough. What I would do is wait untill August / September before any changes. By the looks of it we may be seeing a new or updated range of pre-amps. If it does materialse you will have two options:

* Buy a new one to replace your 202

* Pick up a second hand 282 at a bigger discount as current owners change

As to your question` SN2 or 282 > definitely a separate pre and power. 282 is a beautiful pre-amp.

Adam Zielinski posted:

ryder. posted:

Thanks for the responses. For some who suggested a home demo, I agree that is the best way forward to prevent a costly mistake. Unfortunately I am not in the UK and home demo is not possible. There are very few dealers who offer home demo at the place where I live. Bryston is one of them though the home demo would cost about £40.

 

Fair enough. What I would do is wait untill August / September before any changes. By the looks of it we may be seeing a new or updated range of pre-amps. If it does materialse you will have two options:

* Buy a new one to replace your 202

* Pick up a second hand 282 at a bigger discount as current owners change

As to your question` SN2 or 282 > definitely a separate pre and power. 282 is a beautiful pre-amp.

Thanks for the information and suggestion. One of the reasons I always hesitate replacing the 202 with the 282 is because the 202/200 are meant for each other. Of course, the 282 can always be matched with the 200, but somehow I bought the 202/200 as a package and do not want to see them separated. They go well as a combination. In the event I wanted to upgrade the 202/200 to a higher level Naim amp, it looks like the leap will be to the next amps up the ladder, not only the 282 but the 250, s complete revamp.

Personally my intention at the moment is to get another integrated amp(not necessarily from Naim) to swap in between systems. It will be used in a secondary system with my other pair of unused speakers. However, I am not ruling out a complete revamp of the Naim amps that I own now but I don't see that happening too soon.

I can't help feeling that, as you clearly like the Naim signature, you might well be disappointed with another brand's integrated even as a secondary/intermediate system, although I must admit I am unclear about your future upgrade strategy.

I now understand that a home demo of upgraded Naim gear is out of the question. But if a home demo of other brands' gear is also impossible (except Bryston I accept) why risk shifting brands when you at least appreciate and presumably trust the Naim brand.

The 202 and 200 are not inextricably linked. I upgraded from a 202/200 to a 282/200 and very rewarding it was too. OK you will need a Hicap to get the best a from the 282, but I feel this is more likely to bring a smile to your face than an unknown integrated.

Whatever you decide to do, I wish you luck and hope you will at least be able to try out any new brands before buying.

+1 for NigelB.

As an alternative for your second speakers - I would try one of the Unit range - UntiLite or UnitiQute to start with. This way you can also test streaming.

Richard Dane posted:

However, a Supernait2 might just be preferable in some ways to a NAC152xs/NAP155xs.  It's all idle speculation for me as I haven't done the comparison.  However, "separates" are separate for a good reason.  You could make a one-box integrated that rivalled the same components in separate boxes, you just need to make a much bigger box and be very careful in how you position the constituent parts.  

Hope this post helps..

Hi Richard,

Last year, I managed to compare bare SN1 against my 152xs/155xs/FCxs & I did't quite like it. Maybe SN is meant to be in a small room while separates are great in a big room with wider soundstage. Althought, there was no HC to test during that time. 

Now, upgraded with HCDR/PL to my setup, the sounds are even better. 

Cheers, 

achique99

Last year, I managed to compare bare SN1 against my 152xs/155xs/FCxs & I did't quite like it. Maybe SN is meant to be in a small room while separates are great in a big room with wider soundstage. Althought, there was no HC to test during that time. 

 

The OP clearly asked for advice on SN2 vs 282/250. I struggle to see how your answer is relevant here....

Adam,

Richard Dane introduced the comparison between a SN2 and NAC152xs/NAP155xs further up on this page as quoted by achique99. Ergo the relevance.

Fair enough. But I think it is still not that relevant

anyhow - 282 is by far the superior proposition here

I guess some are attempting to put a comparative perspective on where the SN or SN2 stands relative to separates. I find it of interest.

I never heard SN1 so unfortunately cannot offer any insights.

SN2 and 282 get used daily - both are very good

While SN2 is a really one of the very best integrated amps, 282/HC/250 combo belongs to different class and sounds much better than SN2 imho. It is so simple.

Well at least give the SN2 a HC to make a fair comparison

I run my SN2 with a HiCap - sounds very good. Given a good source it sounds on a par with my 282/SCDR/250DR. 
On 'a par' does not mean one sounds better than the other - they sound a bit different.

If, however, I had to choose only one... 282/SCDR/250DR would be the keeper.

FWIW - I recently put a HCDR on my SN2 and was, frankly, a bit underwhelmed given all the accolades here. I'd put the sonic differences on par with putting a FCXS on my former Nait XS - maybe I was expecting more. I guess the real test will be when I take the HCDR off and decide whether or not I can live without it. At that point I'll try the HCDR on my Stageline and CD5X and see where it might best reside (not discounting the option that it might best serve me sold). I move slowly and evaluate a wide variety of source material so it takes me months, even a year or more to decide on these things.

ryder,

I've removed both HCDR and NAPSC from my 202/200, and find it hard to tell you if a significant difference is audible. If any, I find it a little more immediate and dynamic. Fact is, that I have always added PSUs because I thought they were an important addition, and have removed them because for some reasons I didn't want them – so didn't need them – any more. Now, I wait for someone to comment that since I can't hear the difference, I did right; but a difference is very audible, if one wants to hear it. It is not a subjective difference, it's an objective one; what changes, is the importance we give to it, making it a boulder or a feather, depending on us.

What I meant to say is, that after two 202s, two 200s, two Supernaits, countless HiCaps and other *caps of all colours, I now believe that you hear what you want to hear; that is, depending on a mix of expectations and acceptations. Since almost everyone here, one moment or another, will tell you that a HC and a NAPSC make, each, 'a huge improvement', it should be, by consequence, obvious that removing them will cause a huge worsening; only, it didn't happen, because at that point I was not giving importance to their presence/absence anymore. What you can hear and what you enjoy hearing are two different things, that very rarely work together.

As for all the various comparisons between SN, SN2, 202/200, 282/200, 282/250 etc, I did them all: always wanting to reach a conclusion, to draw lines, to have a winner, to establish a hierarchic list. Simply, b*****it: each to his own. To me, the SN is powerful, authoritative, slightly grey and monochromatic; the SN2 is more shaded and round, but less engaging: the separates are 'better', 282 is much more 'masculine' and forward than the 202, the 200 is a lovely amp. I, one moment or another, would enjoy (and have enjoyed) all, and would reject (or have rejected) all; so, prepare yourself to change perennially – or to find a way to keep your enjoyment, expectations, acceptation at their simplest, most immediate and spontaneous.

Hope it helps, apologies for being sententious.

Max

Max

I wouldn't call it moralizing. I think it's not even philosophical what you've so elaborately written.

At the end of they we MUST remember why we buy this equipment - it is simply a means of playing back the music we love.

If you love hearing music in a fashion which you enjoy, that's the most important thing.*

Adam

* For avoidance of doubt I exclude those horrid, compressed MP3 abominations served from various streaming services.

I had the SN and as lovely as it is I feel the best way forward would be a 272 & 250-2 plus XPS.

I have just taken this path with the latest Naim technology and newest products it is simply sublime you will not be disappointed 

Nahhh - go for a full Statement with NDS + 2 x 555PS Why do things in halves...?

Just kiddin' 

Chris S made an interesting proposal here - with N272 + 250DR you should get a fantastic system for a still moderate outlay (for significantly less than 282 / 250). And you get a very good streamer as well.