Mac Mini or NAS for UPNP and streaming?

Hi - 

Not at all "essential", no. I don't see a real difference between these options, unless you don't leave the mini on all the time... Easy to give it a whirl and see what you think; the mini will outperform any NAS you'd likely buy, and the incremental load from serving music via UPnP will be insignificant so whatever else you're doing on the mini won't be impacted. 

(Disclaimer: I have the same mini, but use its optical out for direct playback and serve UPnP from a NAS... I have wondered about trying this, but just haven't bothered so far. Would be interested to hear your experience when you try it!)

Regards alan

The mini is an expensive nas, so I would not buy one just to use that way.  But because you own it already . . . why not?!?! 

I would have thought that, if comparing Asset on a Mini to Asset on a more convential NAS, it will make zero difference to SQ. 

Well yes, there will be a difference because if you're using a MacMini direct into a DAC you avoid the potential problems with network streaming.

Personally I would use the Mac directly into a dac and cut out the streaming altogether.  With the right software and a few tweaks the Mac sounds superb with the right dac and you lose all of the networking issues and their affects on sq

This again? Sigh. 

Pushing a Mini directly into a DAC will work very well, as will using it as a NAS over a network. They're two different approaches, and each has obvious pros and cons - which is better depends on personal behaviour and preferences. I use streaming in the lounge and a directly connected DAC in the office, and am very happy with both. I wouldn't swap them round.

The OP asked about using the Mini as a server for Asset UPNP, and that approach is very valid. 

Which is pretty much what everyone else said?  

NAS - it is cheaper if you are buying new.

Thanks for the help folks - appreciated. I think I will have a play with Asset on the Mini before committing to a NAS. 

To expand a little… My current set up is rather clunky and needs streamlining. The Mini (family computer) is the base for the music library (currently iTunes), located in a different room to the Hi-Fi. Apple Home Sharing connects this Mini to an Apple Mac G5 / iTunes in my office. Toslink cable from G5 to DAC / NAIT. Apple Remote controls playback. Both rooms (5m apart) connected via CAT5e.

My aim is to bypass this older Power PC Mac for music playback due to incompatibility with modern Music control software (Audirvana etc) and streaming either via Mini or NAS to a Naim streamer seems the logical approach. If all goes well, then the plan is to add a Mu-So in the kitchen and Mu-So QB in the bedroom, hence streaming preference over direct DAC connection.

Apologies to those who think its been covered in depth before. This is a first step in readiness for a Naim streamer so all new territory for me and I just want too get it right. I humbly and graciously ask for patience if my questions seem naive / inexperienced.

Yetizone posted:

Thanks for the help folks - appreciated. I think I will have a play with Asset on the Mini before committing to a NAS. 

To expand a little… My current set up is rather clunky and needs streamlining. The Mini (family computer) is the base for the music library (currently iTunes), located in a different room to the Hi-Fi. Apple Home Sharing connects this Mini to an Apple Mac G5 / iTunes in my office. Toslink cable from G5 to DAC / NAIT. Apple Remote controls playback. Both rooms (5m apart) connected via CAT5e.

My aim is to bypass this older Power PC Mac for music playback due to incompatibility with modern Music control software (Audirvana etc) and streaming either via Mini or NAS to a Naim streamer seems the logical approach. If all goes well, then the plan is to add a Mu-So in the kitchen and Mu-So QB in the bedroom, hence streaming preference over direct DAC connection.

Apologies to those who think its been covered in depth before. This is a first step in readiness for a Naim streamer so all new territory for me and I just want too get it right. I humbly and graciously ask for patience if my questions seem naive / inexperienced.

I found the Mac Mini worked very well indeed as a server, using the free Serviio uPnP software, far better than my former NAS (admittedly that had been a budget-based choice), and with SSDs is virtually silent, needing my ear almost up to it to hear its extremely quiet fan. The only NAS that I'm aware would beat it on quietness is the QNap silent range.

However that was a halfway stage before I went the whole Hog: it is running Audirvana (music renderer) on the Mac Mini that the MM comes into its own, and if you search this forum you'll find more info about that use, then needing a DAC not a "streamer" (For Naim streamer read renderer+DAC in one box). Like numbers of others I found running Audirvana into Hugo (via an USB/SPDIF isolator convertor) gave better quality than ND5XS+XP5XS, at considerably less cost, and you'll find similar favourable comparisons with NDX. A usb-spdif isolator/convertor is presunpmably not needed with the Hugo TT variant.

dayjay posted:

Which is pretty much what everyone else said?  

No; some said, "Dont use it as a UPnP server, use it direct into a dac."  Where in "some" = you.

If I understand the OP correctly...

You can use a Mini with Asset to expose   and steam music stored on the Mac to a Naim streamer as well as use Audirvana with a direct connection to a DAC simultaneously.

For this to work the music should be stored in a directory and structure that both Audirvana and Azsst can access and understand .  

Audirvana can be used in iTunes integrated mode if it's necessary to keep the iTunes library. Not sure whether Asset can read an iTunes library (easy to try though) .  

Also Audirvana  sounds better without the using iTunes integrated mode.  Naim streamers like WAV files the most.  Not show stoppers, as I'm sure that Asset can transcode to WAV on demand. Depends mostly on the file format your existing library is in - AAC?

So, it s worth checking out these aspects before you leap by doing trial downloads etc.

HTH

Jude

In case it may help, let me outline my situation, as I was recently faced with the same decision as part of a move from old Linn to modern Naim equipment.

I went from a Mac Mini feeding an external DAC via the optical output to repurposing my Mac Mini as a dedicated Asset UPnP server. When originally purchased, I had deliberately chosen the mid 2011 model as it was reputed to have low jitter, which was a concern when driving my DAC direct. I also chose the lower spec (at the time) variant Mac Mini to reduce heat output, plus there was no point in spending more money for the intended use.

Asset UPnP will play your ALAC files (although I think you will not see the artwork), although with less than 200 CDs I decided to rip my again in FLAC format and now stream as WAV. I store the FLAC files on the Mac Mini internal hard drive which has more than adequate storage capacity for any foreseeable future needs. In the unlikely event that I might run out of storage, I could always add some external capacity.

Backup is incremental onto a Seagate Portable Drive using SuperDuper backup software from Shirt Pocket. The Mac Mini streams to my 272 over Wi-Fi and the connection is rock solid – I don’t recall a single dropout since I disconnected the Wi-Fi extender. The 272 sorts out any buffering issues and I no longer worry about jitter!

To your question - I used a Mac Mini for UPnP because it was in stock, easy to implement and in my environment, very convenient to manage. Given that I already had the Mac Mini, this appealed to me as an easy, flexible and reliable solution - with no incremental cost. My decision might have been different if the Mac Mini was not already available but OTOH ...

Jude: Thanks OK, that's good to know, I'm pleased that the Mini can act as both UPnP server and utilise a direct wired DAC connection to my Nait (if needed). My one problem being, how would I directly connect my DAC (Hugo / Naim N-DAC etc) to the Mini when they are rooms apart?

The Mini has to stay in the dining room for family access and when I routed CAT5e cable from the router (next to the Mini) to my office where the Nait resides it took some 10 meters of cable running around the room boundaries, nooks and crannies?

Newnaim: Superb! Great to read of your positive experience with regard to the Mini in use as a server. I think I will try this approach first as I have the unit already. It is currently fitted with a 1TB Samsung EVO850 SSD, which should be sufficient for the ripped library, although I was thinking of housing it on external HD's. Already have licenses for both Carbon Copy Cloner & Super Duper and use them daily on both my Macs so am familiar. Understood re the ALAC file and lack of artwork recognition. I certainly want to see artwork etc, so I'm currently re ripping my discs to FLAC right now in preparation, so at least progress is being made, albeit slowly it seems.

Bart posted:

dayjay posted:

Which is pretty much what everyone else said?  

No; some said, "Dont use it as a UPnP server, use it direct into a dac."  Where in "some" = you.

Nope, I said 'personally I would' and not 'don't use as a UPNP server' to add an alternative suggestion because it would be a little boring to just keep repeating what everyone else had already said, although I could of course sigh whilst doing so to add value.  I've done both and both have some value but there is not much point ten people replying to say the same thing is there?

Boys, boys, what's happening to the gentleman's cub that was the Naim forum. 

Back on topic. - to the OP. what you clearly need is to upgrade your power supply before anything else. 

....... I'll get my coat!

SJB

Hi @Yetizone,

Glad I was able to clarify things a bit.  

For connecting a DAC with a long cable, I understand that some folks on the forum have used long USB cable to connect their computer to DAC (Naim V1) without an issue.

A thought though, is that if your main mode of use if going to be multi-room and/ or to some extent multi person, a DAC  and computer approach is  not the  most suitable.  A streamer and server would be the way to go.  For info,there are lot of examples on this forum where a DAC is connected to the streamer to get better SQ ((for example NDX and Hugo).

Jude 

Sloop John B posted:

Boys, boys, what's happening to the gentleman's cub that was the Naim forum. 

Back on topic. - to the OP. what you clearly need is to upgrade your power supply before anything else. 

 

Not sure how that solves the evident desire for a streaming source?

BAck to OP: know knowthing about the Beresford DAC, but given that you have a Mac Mini, try Audirvana with it (free trial, and inexpensive if you buy). If your DAC doesn't have galvanically isolated USN input you'll need something to remove the RF noise from the Mac Mini. If DAC is the limiting factor re Sound quality than a Hugo is the obvious upgrade, beating at least ND5XS and NDX from accounts on here. 

If I understand correctly re any multi-room desire, with a Naim streamer you still need a streamer in each room, it just facilitates connecting so all play the same music - but the MM with uPNP software would serve as well as any NAS if you went that way.

Gentleman’s cub is a rather horrible image! Think about it!

ATB from George

Maybe 'tis supposed to mean gentleperson's cub...  

(Obtuseness deliberate)

Or else something Freudian!

Clement or Sigmund?

Sigie

Well, sounds better than a gentleman's Brownie.