Super Lumina chapter three.

I just chopped 'em up, not ate them. Dissecting a Guinea pig was much more disturbing, and a mink was weird, especially as they were delivered to the lab sans fur. 

Hungryhalibut posted:

I just chopped 'em up, not ate them. Dissecting a Guinea pig was much more disturbing, and a mink was weird, especially as they were delivered to the lab sans fur. 

This brought back the very unpleasant memory of dissecting frogs and rats in my high school biology class. Not sure which was worse - the gory sight or the smell of formaldehyde!

I suppose I should be thankful for the experience though, as it turned me into a vegetarian for the next 40+ years.

dave marshall posted:

Well, it just goes to prove that we all hear things differently, as demonstrated by the various opinions voiced so far in this thread.

Anyway, the SL XLR came off a few days ago, to be replaced with the Chord Sarum Super Array version, and I wasn't immediately impressed. The increased dynamics and flow of the music seems diminished, and the "live" feel was absent.

So, the SL XLR has gone back in half an hour ago, and I'm once again hearing the improvement heard upon initial installation.

So, call it synergy between the cables, call it my ears, no matter, my preference is for the full SL loom.

Mind you, I did say that the final test would be to restore the stock XLR's, but that'll have to wait for now, as I'm enjoying the music far too much at the mo'.

It's all good,

Dave.

 

 

Interesting, Dave. So you used the SLs for a couple of weeks or more and experienced a few early wobbles.  You then tried the Super Arays and decided pretty well immediately that they weren't for you, is that right?  So no opportunity to burn them in a little? 

Dave J posted: 

Then allow yourself to be surprised, and also allow an equivalent number of hours burn in. Actually you won't have to, the Sarums are vastly superior. I've done the comparison on several occasions now and the SLs are a pallid alternative. 

Hi Dave,

The Chords didn't impress me hugely upon initial installation, certainly when compared to the SL's, which, subsequent wobbles notwithstanding, sounded great from day one.

I found that, as each day passed, I simply wanted to reintroduce the Naim cables.

Once done, the sound I had been missing returned, so whilst many on here are more than chuffed with the Chord Sarum, I feel that the Naim version delivers the signature Naim sound.

More proof, if any was needed, that our audio receptors all behave differently, and therefore, our perception of that perfect sound. 

Dave.

dave marshall posted:

...Once done, the sound I had been missing returned, so whilst many on here are more than chuffed with the Chord Sarum, I feel that the Naim version delivers the signature Naim sound.

Dave.

Dave,

it does seem a little odd you prefer the lesser quality SQ sound that is influenced by a cable sound signature of a cable that was purposely developed for the Statement and not so the by and large range of NAP amplifier.

On the other hand the Chord Sarum cables offer a unique transparency that allows the listener to hear what the system components are capable of [and without influence] and it has to be said, the Chord Sarum cables will always be far more naim sound because of this. Although this shouldn't really come as any surprise, Chord have always been fairly close to Naim, not only residing in Salisbury, but the past and present history of developing and producing superb cables specifically for naim NAP amps. 

I would suggest the Super Lumina maybe a cable of another brand, but with the Naim Audio name stuck to it : )

Debs

naim_nymph posted:

dave marshall posted:

...Once done, the sound I had been missing returned, so whilst many on here are more than chuffed with the Chord Sarum, I feel that the Naim version delivers the signature Naim sound.

Dave.

Dave,

it does seem a little odd you prefer the lesser quality SQ sound that is influenced by a cable sound signature of a cable that was purposely developed for the Statement and not so the by and large range of NAP amplifier.

 

Lesser sounding SQ according to who Debs?

Not according to Dave it isn't

We need some definitions here:

• Optimal?
• Naim sound?
• Improvement?
• Lesser SQ?
• Sonic Synergy?

naim_nymph posted:

dave marshall posted:

...Once done, the sound I had been missing returned, so whilst many on here are more than chuffed with the Chord Sarum, I feel that the Naim version delivers the signature Naim sound.

Dave.

Dave,

it does seem a little odd you prefer the lesser quality SQ sound that is influenced by a cable sound signature of a cable that was purposely developed for the Statement and not so the by and large range of NAP amplifier.

On the other hand the Chord Sarum cables offer a unique transparency that allows the listener to hear what the system components are capable of [and without influence] and it has to be said, the Chord Sarum cables will always be far more naim sound because of this. Although this shouldn't really come as any surprise, Chord have always been fairly close to Naim, not only residing in Salisbury, but the past and present history of developing and producing superb cables specifically for naim NAP amps. 

I would suggest the Super Lumina maybe a cable of another brand, but with the Naim Audio name stuck to it : )

Debs

Oh dear, opinions about equipment SQ stated as fact, the most common mistake on here.

No, of course Naim don't manufacture reels of cable, but they do buy in the SL reels and manufacture the final cable in house, and very skilfully too as I saw on a recent factory visit. Chord could never be as close to Naim as that. Also Naim might have developed SL with the Statement project but would have certainly designed SL to be used with Classic black boxes as they would never recoup the SL development costs if they were only ever to be sold/used with Statement.

My opinion is that the SL cables (well the IC and speaker cables) sound more transparent than the Sarum (TA and SA) when used with Classic black boxes and certainly have the 'Naim sound signature' (I have broadly characterised this as 'incisive' in comparison to the SA).

The fact is both Chord (SA and TA) and SL are both superbly revealing and capable cables, but with different sonic signatures and characters. In the end it is a matter of opinion which you prefer.

nigelb posted:

naim_nymph posted:

dave marshall posted:

...Once done, the sound I had been missing returned, so whilst many on here are more than chuffed with the Chord Sarum, I feel that the Naim version delivers the signature Naim sound.

Dave.

Dave,

it does seem a little odd you prefer the lesser quality SQ sound that is influenced by a cable sound signature of a cable that was purposely developed for the Statement and not so the by and large range of NAP amplifier.

On the other hand the Chord Sarum cables offer a unique transparency that allows the listener to hear what the system components are capable of [and without influence] and it has to be said, the Chord Sarum cables will always be far more naim sound because of this. Although this shouldn't really come as any surprise, Chord have always been fairly close to Naim, not only residing in Salisbury, but the past and present history of developing and producing superb cables specifically for naim NAP amps. 

I would suggest the Super Lumina maybe a cable of another brand, but with the Naim Audio name stuck to it : )

Debs

Oh dear, opinions about equipment SQ stated as fact, the most common mistake on here.

 

The fact is both Chord (SA and TA) and SL are both superbly revealing and capable cables, but with different sonic signatures and characters. In the end it is a matter of opinion which you prefer.

Oh dear, worms, can of.

Definitive definitions of SQ are, as you quite rightly point out, a matter of opinion, and, since stated earlier, our receptors work differently, so our opinions will vary accordingly.

As pointed out elsewhere, by HH of this parish, there's also the possibility of folks recommending kit which they already own, and are happy with, and I do include myself within this happy band. 

Dave.

dave marshall posted:

nigelb posted:

naim_nymph posted:

dave marshall posted:

...Once done, the sound I had been missing returned, so whilst many on here are more than chuffed with the Chord Sarum, I feel that the Naim version delivers the signature Naim sound.

Dave.

Dave,

it does seem a little odd you prefer the lesser quality SQ sound that is influenced by a cable sound signature of a cable that was purposely developed for the Statement and not so the by and large range of NAP amplifier.

On the other hand the Chord Sarum cables offer a unique transparency that allows the listener to hear what the system components are capable of [and without influence] and it has to be said, the Chord Sarum cables will always be far more naim sound because of this. Although this shouldn't really come as any surprise, Chord have always been fairly close to Naim, not only residing in Salisbury, but the past and present history of developing and producing superb cables specifically for naim NAP amps. 

I would suggest the Super Lumina maybe a cable of another brand, but with the Naim Audio name stuck to it : )

Debs

Oh dear, opinions about equipment SQ stated as fact, the most common mistake on here.

 

The fact is both Chord (SA and TA) and SL are both superbly revealing and capable cables, but with different sonic signatures and characters. In the end it is a matter of opinion which you prefer.

Oh dear, worms, can of.

Definitive definitions of SQ are, as you quite rightly point out, a matter of opinion, and, since stated earlier, our receptors work differently, so our opinions will vary accordingly.

As pointed out elsewhere, by HH of this parish, there's also the possibility of folks recommending kit which they already own, and are happy with, and I do include myself within this happy band. 

Dave.

I used to own Chord Sarum Tuned Aray IC, then did a lengthy home demo of both SL and Chord Sarum Super Aray IC (praised both by the way) and now own SL IC. So I don't think I am guilty the above but will allow others to decide.

dave marshall posted:

 

As pointed out elsewhere, by HH of this parish, there's also the possibility of folks recommending kit which they already own, and are happy with, and I do include myself within this happy band. 

 

Recommending kit just because you own it is obviously a dubious thing. Then again, if we own it because we made a thorough investigation of the options, and found it to be the best, that's an opinion likely to be of interest to the person asking for advice. More use than recommending kit that you've only ever read about.

nigelb posted:

My opinion is that the SL cables (well the IC and speaker cables) sound more transparent than the Sarum (TA and SA) when used with Classic black boxes and certainly have the 'Naim sound signature' (I have broadly characterised this as 'incisive' in comparison to the SA).

The fact is both Chord (SA and TA) and SL are both superbly revealing and capable cables, but with different sonic signatures and characters. In the end it is a matter of opinion which you prefer.

We are all entitled to our own opinions, i appreciate that, but it should be stressed people should do the demo tests for themselves before making their minds up which cable to buy.  What i read between the lines of 3 chapters of SL posts, is much to do about the unconditional devout purchasing of brand naim cable over any other, including the obviously more superior Chord Sarum cable at the similar price band, and with the Sarum cables so out-classing the super lumina it seems odd to me they are being compared together - about from the reason them being in the same price bracket, but this only suggests the super lumina is rather over hyped and very over priced.

That's my opinions anyway : )

Debs

naim_nymph posted:

nigelb posted:

My opinion is that the SL cables (well the IC and speaker cables) sound more transparent than the Sarum (TA and SA) when used with Classic black boxes and certainly have the 'Naim sound signature' (I have broadly characterised this as 'incisive' in comparison to the SA).

The fact is both Chord (SA and TA) and SL are both superbly revealing and capable cables, but with different sonic signatures and characters. In the end it is a matter of opinion which you prefer.

 

We are all entitled to our own opinions, i appreciate that, but it should be stressed people should do the demo tests for themselves before making their minds up which cable to buy.  What i read between the lines of 3 chapters of SL posts, is much to do about the unconditional devout purchasing of brand naim cable over any other, including the obviously more superior Chord Sarum cable at the similar price band, and with the Sarum cables so out-classing the super lumina it seems odd to me they are being compared together - about from the reason them being in the same price bracket, but this only suggests the super lumina is rather over hyped and very over priced.

That's my opinions anyway : )

Debs

The statements highlighted in your last post are typical of many other opinions I read on here, but stated as irrefutable facts. I'm afraid your final throwaway line does not change this.

nigelb posted:

The statements highlighted in your last post are typical of many other opinions I read on here, but stated as irrefutable facts. I'm afraid your final throwaway line does not change this.

It's always the same on this forum, there comes a time when people stop discussing the issues and resort to attacking the poster instead.

Shows poor form that : )

Debs

nigelb posted:

naim_nymph posted:

nigelb posted:

My opinion is that the SL cables (well the IC and speaker cables) sound more transparent than the Sarum (TA and SA) when used with Classic black boxes and certainly have the 'Naim sound signature' (I have broadly characterised this as 'incisive' in comparison to the SA).

The fact is both Chord (SA and TA) and SL are both superbly revealing and capable cables, but with different sonic signatures and characters. In the end it is a matter of opinion which you prefer.

 

We are all entitled to our own opinions, i appreciate that, but it should be stressed people should do the demo tests for themselves before making their minds up which cable to buy.  What i read between the lines of 3 chapters of SL posts, is much to do about the unconditional devout purchasing of brand naim cable over any other, including the obviously more superior Chord Sarum cable at the similar price band, and with the Sarum cables so out-classing the super lumina it seems odd to me they are being compared together - about from the reason them being in the same price bracket, but this only suggests the super lumina is rather over hyped and very over priced.

That's my opinions anyway : )

Debs

The statements highlighted in your last post are typical of many other opinions I read on here, but stated as irrefutable facts. I'm afraid your final throwaway line does not change this.

Whoop! whooop! Sense of humour failure! Abandon forum! Whoop! Whoop!

Hey, it really doesn't matter you know. You listen to the options then decide what you prefer and works in your particular unique system. Simples! Never got the "Only Naim will do" syndrome but then that's all part of the rich pattern.

naim_nymph posted:

nigelb posted:

The statements highlighted in your last post are typical of many other opinions I read on here, but stated as irrefutable facts. I'm afraid your final throwaway line does not change this.

It's always the same on this forum, there comes a time when people stop discussing the issues and resort to attacking the poster instead.

Shows poor form that : )

Debs

Maybe you are right, I certainly didn't mean my comments as a personal attack. I will certainly watch my tone and language.

Although you have highlighted 'your' in my thread, I was also referring to 'other opinions' on here where opinions are passed off as facts. So my 'attack', if it was one, was aimed at those with this general tendency.

I guess it is inevitable on a public forum and no big deal really. I certainly wouldn't accuse those who confuse fact and opinion as showing poor form. 

tonym posted:

nigelb posted:

naim_nymph posted:

nigelb posted:

My opinion is that the SL cables (well the IC and speaker cables) sound more transparent than the Sarum (TA and SA) when used with Classic black boxes and certainly have the 'Naim sound signature' (I have broadly characterised this as 'incisive' in comparison to the SA).

The fact is both Chord (SA and TA) and SL are both superbly revealing and capable cables, but with different sonic signatures and characters. In the end it is a matter of opinion which you prefer.

 

We are all entitled to our own opinions, i appreciate that, but it should be stressed people should do the demo tests for themselves before making their minds up which cable to buy.  What i read between the lines of 3 chapters of SL posts, is much to do about the unconditional devout purchasing of brand naim cable over any other, including the obviously more superior Chord Sarum cable at the similar price band, and with the Sarum cables so out-classing the super lumina it seems odd to me they are being compared together - about from the reason them being in the same price bracket, but this only suggests the super lumina is rather over hyped and very over priced.

That's my opinions anyway : )

Debs

The statements highlighted in your last post are typical of many other opinions I read on here, but stated as irrefutable facts. I'm afraid your final throwaway line does not change this.

Whoop! whooop! Sense of humour failure! Abandon forum! Whoop! Whoop!

Hey, it really doesn't matter you know. You listen to the options then decide what you prefer and works in your particular unique system. Simples! Never got the "Only Naim will do" syndrome but then that's all part of the rich pattern.

Amen to that.

Currently trying ..........

And fully run in...

Chris Dolan posted:

Currently trying ..........

And....first impressions.....??

Hungryhalibut posted:

And fully run in...

Lucky you, I've just paid for my pair today! 

Three weeks in...

nigelb posted:

Chris Dolan posted:

Currently trying ..........

And....first impressions.....??

This is the first time that I have used SL "hands on" - rather than in someone else's system and control - and I am very impressed indeed 

Comparing against my HiLine the SL interconnect was immediately much more detailed - startlingly so in fact with a few "Wow - where did that come from?" moments.

The presentation was also bigger wider and much more sophisticated and there is an even  stronger sense of the Naim drive and flow that is more precise and controlled than I was aware of with the HiLine.

Certainly in the black box upgrade territory 

I did change back to the HiLine, but to be honest only briefly, to hear the effect in reverse and quantify any connection cleaning that might have occured by the swap, but it wasn't necessary. The SL was so clearly preferable to the HiLine. In comparison the HiLine actually sounded a bit thin and ragged - which was certainly not how I heard it before trying the SL and even now it seems bizarre articulating that impression.

I should say that I did try Chord Sarum Tuned ARAY a while ago in the same way against the HiLine. My system has evolved a little since then, and I am not 100% of the timing but it was definitely with SBLs and probably with 282/250.2. At that time I liked most of what the STA added but I found it a touch too forward and incisive, so did not actually commit to it. 

Logic would then say that the SL is therefore much better than Chord STA as I would have no such qualms commiting to the SL. I really don't think it is as simple as that given the system differences but I wanted to give my comments and preferences some context.

I've continued with the SL to allow it to bed in further and continued to enjoy the music.

I stupidly forgot to mention the realism and sense of performance and being there that the SL brings.

I have some news guys:

About 4 months ago I bought: NDS, Full-Loom, another 555PS DR.
I didn't love the NDS until last week, I thought something was wrong and it didn't justify the high price.

I noticed that the XLR-DIN SL are killing the sound quality, too much hi-fi, less music (the other cables: DIN-DIN, Speaker Cables gave an overall improvement).
I wanted to sell the XLR-DIN cables (which I tried for 3 weeks in my system) in Munich Hi-End show this year, but eventually I didn't do that (there is no S.N. for the cables - TAX problems).

Last week I connected the XLR-DIN and also changed the UPnP server from Asset to MinimServer (I listen mostly to classical music), and also connected the NDS to 2x555PS DR. The result is fantastic!

The sound is much more exclusive, natural, big, the room is full of music. I can't find any disadvantages although the 500 is not a DR version.
The SL2 sounds like a big loudspeakers, to my taste, in Munich there is no system I preferred (or want to exchange with).

The full-loom is indeed a very dramatic improvement for enjoyment.

Miki