282+SCAP connection to SN2

Adam Zielinski posted:

ryder. posted:

Tuomo posted:

Hi Ryder.

I am listening at the moment 282/200 to be able to answer you. My experience is that 282/200 is powerful enough since SN2/200 works fine with the same speakers. I would not necessarily say that 282/SN2 is warmer across the whole frequency spectrum but meatier and very well balanced. Maybe 282/200 is better with some different PSU or some darker sounding or speakers. 

Would be nice to hear how 250 and 250 DR works with 282 compared to 200.

 

Hi Tuomo,

Thanks for the response. Good to hear the 282/SN2 is not warmer across the frequency spectrum but meatier and more well balanced. I presume the combination had made the 282/200 sounding leaner or thinner ie. less meatier. FWIW I find the opposite to be true with the 282/200, but that was when the 282/200 was compared with the 202/200. The 282/200 is meatier, fuller sounding and more dynamic than the 202/200 which sounds thinner and flatter in comparison.

Similarly I prefer the meatier and more balanced presentation of the 282/200 (282/SN2 in your case). I have to mention that I also have a PSU connected to all the Naim amps, though it is not a Hicap DR but a third-party PSU. The power supply surely brought a good level of control to the amps. Apart from the 250 DR, I also have the Hicap DR coming in as well. Will compare the following combinations and post my impressions sometime next month.

1. NAC282 + NAP200 + Third Party PSU

2. NAC282 + NAP200 + Naim Hicap DR

3. NAC282 + NAP250 DR + Third Party PSU

4. NAC282 + NAP250 DR + Naim Hicap DR

5. NAC202 + NAP200 + Third Party PSU

6. NAC202 + NAP200 + Naim Hicap DR

And the winner is going to be  your option 4.

Yes, I was surely hoping that would be the case. Just a slight concern the 250 DR may bring more warmth than the NAP200. With my speakers, I do not want more warmth but transparency, separation, extension and control at both frequency extremes (having said that the speakers that will eventually replace my current speakers will likely bring me all these attributes).

Ryder - you need to listen to those systems. I think you are expecting too many things here though.

And unless you set up all those systems next to each other it will be very difficult for you to judge the effect of HiCap vs the other one, especially in a system you are not intimately familiar with.

With power amps it will be easier. One thing I can assure you - both of them will sound like Naim

282 is a superb pre-amp so if you can, just get it. You will like what it does. Adding a SuperCap is also well worth considering.

Adam

Adam Zielinski posted:

Ryder - you need to listen to those systems. I think you are expecting too many things here though.

And unless you set up all those systems next to each other it will be very difficult for you to judge the effect of HiCap vs the other one, especially in a system you are not intimately familiar with.

With power amps it will be easier. One thing I can assure you - both of them will sound like Naim

282 is a superb pre-amp so if you can, just get it. You will like what it does. Adding a SuperCap is also well worth considering.

Adam

Yes Adam, I do not know what to expect with the 250 DR and Hicap DR as I have yet to receive these, hence the concerns, or expectations. I will have all the components as listed above in my system so the comparison wouldn't be too difficult. It is just the hassle of swapping boxes since my rack does not have enough shelves to house two additional components.

I already have the NAC282. I won't be getting the Supercap.

Hi Mates,

Finally I have got SC-DR plus 250-DR together with Supr Lumina DIN/DIN interconnetc. Installed them to my system at the place of my HICAP-DR, Highline and SN2's power section. After installation I have played XLO/Reference Recording (in)famous CD to burn in new components in loop mode for 2 days.

Here are my findings:

(Since new components have arrived and installed  in the same time I am not able to decide what causes what. Now the system consists of NDS+555PS-DR, 282+SC-DR, NAP250-DR, a pair of Harbeth C7-ES3 on Skylan stands, Super Lumina DID/DIN interconnect cable, double Fraim, all boxes Powerlined.)

- new system is "full sounding",  a lot of additional details never heard before.

- more enyergy, weigth and controll, extended HF response, more controlled bass, somehow "similar" sounding to 282+SN2 in character but the new system is more "sophisticated" adds extra weigth to the individual instruments.

- more 3D, focus and texture.

- sound noticeably cleaner so I often turn up the volume knob to get the same loudness level subjectively.

All in all, new combination is better in every important area. If we take prices into account SN2+HICAP-DR costs around GBP 4000 while 282+SC-DR+250-DR is 12K+ not to mention the price difference between Highline and Super Lumina IC. The ratio is about 1 : 4. The question arises. Is the new system four times better than the old one? Imho no it is not. I think my old gear brings at least 90% ol the new one musically that proves me that how excellent buy SN2/HC-DR could be. Altogether I am happy with my new one.  When listening music on my new toy I feel as if I would have new music collection. You can decide for yourshelf.......

nice write up - and something to think about.

I have 202/200 in one room and 282/HCDR/250DR in the other, and while I can easily hear that 282/HCDR/250DR is better, not sure that I would have bought either one now starting again.

I would spend a lot more money on a source, and maybe, just maybe buy HCDR/SN2.

Congratulations on the new system. Good to hear you are enjoying the new gear. The description on the improvements pretty much mirrors my experience although I am just adding the NAP 250 DR into the NAC 282 and HCDR. The NAP 250 DR does sound fuller and has more detail(refinement) from top to bottom. Better texture, focus and 3-dimensional depth too when compared to the NAP 200 that it replaces.

As for the cost of the new amps, good point. It is difficult or almost impossible to have a correlation between price and sound quality. Nevertheless, it is interesting that you feel the SN2/HCDR to give you 90% the performance of the NAC 282 / Supercap DR / NAP 250 DR. If that's the case, I can surely understand where you are coming from.

Similarly I have compared the NAC 202 / HCDR / NAP 200 to the NAC 282 / HCDR / NAP 250 DR and found nice tangible improvements. As mentioned earlier, it is often difficult to compare the quality of components based on monetary terms as there isn't any form of measurement for musical enjoyment. In my case, although the cost ratio between the 282/HCDR/250DR and 202/200/non-Naim PSU (used) is 4 to 1, I am glad to have gone with the upgrade. Though I have to admit the 282/HCDR/250DR is likely the final stop for me with the exception of some Powerlines, maybe next year.

Dear Ryder,

Like in every hobby (not only HIFI) relatively small gain in quality often needs large money to invest.....

I think my amplification is also the final stop for me.

Best regards,

PZ

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Hi PZ,

It is indeed true that one has to spend considerably more to get a relatively minor (but important) sound improvement mainly in detail and refinement. In this game, it is the seemingly small changes that make all the (big) difference.

You can surely stop at your level as your gear is mighty impressive. Though that Supercap DR of yours might tempt you to upgrade the NAC 282 to a higher level preamp in the near future.

The SN2/HCDR must be special to be able to sound close to the NAC 282 / Supercap DR / NAP 250 DR. Perhaps give the system more time and it may blossom to something special in several weeks or months to come.

Enjoy~

FWIW my system now sounds great. Remember my post I made 3 months ago when I compared the Harbeth SHL5 to the SHL5 Plus. After the listening session, I was seriously considering to upgrade my speakers to the SHL5 Plus. But now the urge has somewhat faded after I got the new amps into the system. My SHL5s now sound better than the SHL5 Plus at the dealers. The 282/SCDR/250 DR surely transformed the speakers. The improvements are across the whole frequency spectrum. For me, the most important change apart all the usual 3-D, refinement, air etc. is in the bass department. The lower and mid-bass control of the SHL5s are much improved. I didn't expect that a speaker with a rather "uncontrolled" bass now pumps out tight, taut and punchy bass lines. Although it's the work of the whole setup, the NAP 250 DR has surely made a tangible difference in the bass. I know this for sure as I replaced the new components one by one. The NAC 282 and HCDR went in first, the NAP 250 DR went in about a month later.