Stupid Question : Why Are There Two Rows of Same Buttons On The Front Panel Of NAC282, NAC252 and NAC552

The second set of buttons controls the source for the "record out" function, widely used in the era of tape recorders.  To quote from the "amplifiers" owner manual, available on the Naim website in pdf:

Not a dumb question at all. As AHT says, this harks back to when it was completely normal that most people would have a tape or DAT player hooked up and would make recodings frm other sources (often the radio) while listening to something else.

This still happens but generally gone are the days of fighting over who is playing vinyl and who has to record The Archers. I would estimate that there are very very few who still use this functionality but if you took it away they would be pretty vocal in their complaint.

Persnonally, on my 282, since I only have one source almost none of the buttons are used other than to mute headphones or speakers. If Naim dropped the second row and reduced the first row to say 4 inputs, 99% of users would not be inconvenienced in any way. But the remaining 1% are sure to follow up and refute that  If it is not a significant portion of the cost of a unit then leaving it as is doesn't really bother me. But if the design impact adds a sizeable amount to the final cost, I would like to see it gone. After all, with more and more digital sources, streamers like the NDX already consolidate input switching outside of the preamp.

Thanks for the responses. Much appreciated. Similarly, I share the same sentiment on this. Folks rarely use tapes these days and as such, the second row of buttons is deemed to be redundant. Naim may have their own reasons to retain those buttons.

Similarly, I don't use much of the inputs on my preamp. I currently have two sources (CD player and digital DAC) connected to it. I don't foresee connecting more than 2 sources to my preamp (sold my turntable 2 years ago). Personally I think 4 inputs sound just about right.

Ja, the  2nd row seems to be redundant, I have never used the recording feature since 1989 at when my tape recorder got dumped.

My gut feeling is that since the switching is processor controlled anyway, the buttons have little or no impact on performance. I think it is the number of redundant imputs that is more of an issue.

But there will be those that use all 6. One thing about Naim is that their pre/power amps are favoured in a number of recording studios. I can imagine that pedigree being important to Naim and similarly imagine that would use more functionality.

Personally I would like them to be stripped from front panel if overall cost can be reduced for Nac282, Nac252 or Nac552. Perhaps the record buttons are there for aesthetic purpose so that the pre-amp will not look so plain......

I think the 202 / Supernait 2 front panels look much better and sleeker without the second row of buttons. It's one (albeit minor) thing putting me off getting a 282. Ditto the balance knob.

202 looking better than 282 and above? Completely agree.

Balance being removed from panel? No, I think this is widely used and for those with really extensive vinyl or reel to reel, balance may need adjusting according to specific recording.

I agree the two banks of buttons looks a little crowded. I use the second line out or 'record' functionality but never have done for a tape recorder... I drive a seperate headphone amp. but the second bank could perhaps be controlled as with the primary bank  via a single row of buttons under the microprocessor control.

I found the hidden balance on the 202 annoying when I owned it, I much prefer the external balance of the 282 and above. I also think the number of inputs is about right, I regularly use four, and occasionally use all of them .. Great flexibility.

So my suggestion... single bank of inputs to control primary and secondary line out, visible volume and balance and keep inputs as they are ... running out of them when you need them is a PITA.... but I agree for those that have a more basic need a NAC-lite might be an interesting idea... But I suspect the difference in  cost and therefore price would be minimal.

Simon

Simon, I also suspect any cost savings on the 2nd row of buttons might be minimal but what about sound quality. A less than complicated circuity design may improve the sound to some extend. Simon, care to share what are you using on the 4 inputs. I only have 1 source so 1 input is active, maybe I am underutilized it.

ryder. posted:

Thanks for the responses. Much appreciated. Similarly, I share the same sentiment on this. Folks rarely use tapes these days and as such, the second row of buttons is deemed to be redundant. Naim may have their own reasons to retain those buttons.

The 2nd row may be a redundant for tape recorders,  but I use my Supernait record out to feed my Nait-2 in the dining room.  That, & no DAC, is why I did not move to SN2.  

Hi Mikapoh, my four inputs.... CDX2, NAT05, Hugo and phono input for mobile device ( iPad, iPhone etc) 

Thanks for sharing Simon You finally managed to get your CDX2 up and running after collecting dust in the storeroom isn't it? 

I think the double row of buttons is designed to say to 202/200 and SN2 owners, 'You ain't a player, you ain't got a double row'.

C.

mikapoh posted:

Thanks for sharing Simon You finally managed to get your CDX2 up and running after collecting dust in the storeroom isn't it? 

Yes, I re discovered its charms when I got my 252.. That NAC simply allows all that is good in the CDX2 with Hiline  sound to flow through. It's a great heavy blues and rock player. It also acts as my signal ground reference....

For me, having been an audio enthusiast for fifty years (ish), the number of input buttons on my 552 is way  too small.  So much so that I've felt the need to add a NAC N 272 to provide some more analogue and digital switching of input devices, so that I can enjoy my collection of input sources acquired over the years.

For folks who have grown up in this digital age this may sound crazy and they could be forgiven for wondering why anyone would wish to listen to strange things like a cassette deck, a reel-to-reel or a DAT... but for me, who's major life events have been celebrated to music from these various old fashioned sources, it brings great pleasure to put on a musicassette or load a reel tape from time to time.  And, of course, let's not knock the sound quality from these ancient sources, they still get pretty close to what my CDX2 can do.

And finally, you could ask why the need for two record decks... and I would tell you that just so long as I buy vinyl from car boot or attic sales, I prefer to initially play these potentially dirty scratched and uncared-for LPs on a good old Shure V15 mm workhorse rather than my shiny new (expensive) Kandid mc cartridge.

So to anyone from the Naim product design team who is reading this thread, I say "Please don't even think of reducing the button count, it's far too low as it is."

Roger

feeling_zen posted:

One thing about Naim is that their pre/power amps are favoured in a number of recording studios.

Interesting .... would you care to divulge which recording studios?

The second row of buttons enables one person to use say the radio via headphones, while someone else listens to a record. 

This has been discussed many times previously, and I suspect that it's more likely that the current analogue preamps will be superseded before they are redesigned. 

How many buttons / rows has the Statement got ?   (just out of interest)

The 282 won't be a 282 sans the record buttons. Leave 'em be!!

Apparently muting the record section improves sound quality for those worried about the impact of the second row. 

rjstaines posted:

How many buttons / rows has the Statement got ?   (just out of interest)

According to the manual it has one button that scrolls through the five inputs. 

Hungryhalibut posted:

rjstaines posted:

How many buttons / rows has the Statement got ?   (just out of interest)

According to the manual it has one button that scrolls through the five inputs. 

What ! ... only five inputs ?   ...well that rules out the Statement for me then.

rjstaines posted:

Hungryhalibut posted:

rjstaines posted:

How many buttons / rows has the Statement got ?   (just out of interest)

According to the manual it has one button that scrolls through the five inputs. 

What ! ... only five inputs ?   ...well that rules out the Statement for me then.

Don't be cheap. Buy 2 and bridge them.

rjstaines posted:

For me, having been an audio enthusiast for fifty years (ish), the number of input buttons on my 552 is way  too small.  So much so that I've felt the need to add a NAC N 272 to provide some more analogue and digital switching of input devices, so that I can enjoy my collection of input sources acquired over the years.

For folks who have grown up in this digital age this may sound crazy and they could be forgiven for wondering why anyone would wish to listen to strange things like a cassette deck, a reel-to-reel or a DAT... but for me, who's major life events have been celebrated to music from these various old fashioned sources, it brings great pleasure to put on a musicassette or load a reel tape from time to time.  And, of course, let's not knock the sound quality from these ancient sources, they still get pretty close to what my CDX2 can do.

And finally, you could ask why the need for two record decks... and I would tell you that just so long as I buy vinyl from car boot or attic sales, I prefer to initially play these potentially dirty scratched and uncared-for LPs on a good old Shure V15 mm workhorse rather than my shiny new (expensive) Kandid mc cartridge.

So to anyone from the Naim product design team who is reading this thread, I say "Please don't even think of reducing the button count, it's far too low as it is."

Roger

 

 

 

 

Pertinent points. I also grow up in the cassette deck age but have since moved on. With all due respect, I can understand that there will still be minority of folks who still value the recording functions of these decks. But I believe there will be a time when the tape, reel-to-reel or DAT era will come to an end (when the younger generation come into the picture). Eventually the said formats will become extinct. The same can be said with CDs. Only time will tell if they will still be as popular 20 or 30 years down the road. At this current age, appeal and demand (with CD) can be seen to be dwindling with the current generation switching to computer audio.

In my view, with audio gear(or other things that are not related to audio), manufacturers will need to adapt or evolve with the market, on what that is considered to be important to the masses. What is the point of offering a feature or function that nobody will use. From your post, I can see that there will still be some folks who still use the recording features of the older audio formats in cassettes and reel-to-reel etc., hence the usefulness of the current row of (recording) buttons on the preamp. And for this reason, I appreciate that these buttons are still made available on the higher-range of Naim preamps.

I would think that the preamp would look a whole lot neater and better without the second row of buttons, and it would be useful since most people don't use cassettes or reel-to-reel these days. But that's just my opinion. Not that I am stressing or suggesting a change, but rather being interested to know Naim's viewpoint on this matter.

One important use of the second row of button is to select the source for the headline headphone amplifier, even while a different source is simultaneously routed to the main speakers. For those who have yet to experience it the sound quality derived from architecting the pre-amps this way has to be heard to be believed and is yet another example of Naim being 15-20 years ahead of the market since only now are people scratching their heads and wondering why they are designed that way.