NDS - Just a beefed-up hard disk?

Yes.

I agree with the "very expensive souped-up" part but I don't think it has any hard drive storage on board.  If you have the required power supply and NAS, it could be a good buy, but the NDS itself just gets you started.

So, wouldn't I be better off with a Melco(which seems to be getting quite a lot of publicity here) or even a Hugo?

No. You need a streamer.

Tony2011 posted:

 I have the feeling it is just a very expensive, souped-up hard disk.

 

Expensive - yes

Souped up - yes

Hard disk - no

Now try asking for an opinion on the HDX...

nigelb posted:

No. You need a streamer.

Nigel, your previous (NO!,  monosyllabic) answer is very interesting if a bit useless to me!  Following your response, could you please expand?

Sorry Tony, I wasn't quite sure how to take your OP.

The NDS is a streamer, in fact I think the correct term is renderer. A streamer has no hard disc. It is connected to a server which is the hard disc storage for music files either via wifi connection or via an ethernet wired network. The server...err...serves music files to the streamer which reads them and converts them into an analog signal via its internal DAC. This analog signal is fed to the pre amp via an analog interconnect. 

The Hugo is only a DAC and the Melco (I believe) is a rather sophisticated server.

Were you not happy with the sound you heard from the NDS/282/300 combo?

No worries, Nigel. I currently use a Uniti(upgraded 192) for all stream functions, connected to my 282.  

It was a genuine question. Most of my listening is analogue(Vinyl) but I do like to explore the digital world as I have done through  Tidal HF and others in the past.

Apologies for  the misunderstanding. Perhaps, I should stick to my analogue stuff and let you guys carry on with the digital thing. 

ATB

Tony

But what did you think of the NDS/282/300 system?

By the way I started with an upgraded Uniti when I first got into streaming but used it as a one box system (well two as I had it hooked up to a Unitiserve). The rest, as they say, is history.

If you had your system details in your profile I could probably have guessed where you were coming from with your OP.

It was not enough  to convince me to upgrade. That's why I am still the Uniti.  I can't get my head around it!  How come it costs  three time more and to my years  it sounds the bloody same! 

Maybe you didn't hear the NDS in the best environment (the best being in your own home IMHO). Also the best material to listen to is your own favourite stuff.

In the 282/Supercap/250 you have a great amplification set up that will show the superiority of the NDS. It must be said however that the NDX is also very capable and might even be the best VFM match to your amplification. The only way to truly hear the difference between the NDS or NDX and your Uniti is to borrow one of these streamers and listen to it at home if you have a friendly dealer. 

I strongly recommend you don't give up (yet) on the digital world until you have heard a NDX or NDS in ideal conditions (if possible in your own home with your own system). You wouldn't even need to stream with this demo, you could simply listen to Tidal on the streamer in your home to form an opinion. I currently listen to Tidal as much as stream my own material.

Thank you for the advice, Nigel. I'll take everything on board and try to sort some proper listening. Much appreciated.

Regards, 

Tony

Also bear in mind that the nds will need an external power supply to work. The ndx has the power supply built in to get you started but can be upgraded with an external supply.

Ive owned both the ndx and nds, both powered by a 555dr power supply. In my opinion the nds was much better and much more natural/analog sounding, but the ndx was no slouch either.

Tony2011 posted:

So, wouldn't I be better off with a Melco(which seems to be getting quite a lot of publicity here) or even a Hugo?

Let's go back to the basic. Yes you need as well a Nas to store your music on and yes a great Nas is the Melco. The NDS doesn't include a hard disk, it's expensive but it's one of the best streaming devices on the market. The only competition is coming from another streaming solution with a Chord Dave or the top streamer from Linn.

Or a few of us on the forum believe believe the Chord Hugo pips the NDS for the DAC duties when using SPDIF and a quality transport such as using at least an NDX ... but the NDS transport is probably second to none. Agree the NDS is very much more performant and open sounding than the NDX .. at least it is in my system... but then it should be ...

Simon

Well - my only add on is: just buy it, but make sure it comes with a proper power supply i.e. 555PS. 

Getting on for £10,000 is an awful lot of money to spend just to listen to Tidal, which sounds a bit ropey at the best of times. I'd be inclined to go with an NDX and grow from there if needs be, or just stick with the Uniti as streaming source, though 80% of it is redundant in that role. 

The NDS is a world class digital source, that plays music wonderfully well.

All you need to do is listen to one for a few songs and it will be very apparent.

I remember when I first heard it, I really enjoyed 3 hours in the dealer showroom (Dubai Audio) listening to songs.

Amazing source, really, and it left an impression on me till today, yes even though I own the Chord Hugo.

analogmusic posted:

 

The NDS is a world class digital source, that plays music wonderfully well.

All you need to do is listen to one for a few songs and it will be very apparent.

I remember when I first heard it, I really enjoyed 3 hours in the dealer showroom (Dubai Audio) listening to songs.

Amazing source, really, and it left an impression on me till today, yes even though I own the Chord Hugo.

Very true...

I tested it for two weeks, gave it back - lasted for 3 weeks - the separation anxiety was too much to handle.
As of last Friday an NDS is residing on my rack.

NDS is a wonderful piece of kit but it really needs a 555dr to reveal all its qualities. I use it with h a vortex box and it works wonderfully well. Currently works with a 282 super cap. Needs a long listen in your own set up before you mak a decision. Any good d alert should oblige.

Tony2011 posted:

It was not enough  to convince me to upgrade. That's why I am still the Uniti.  I can't get my head around it!  How come it costs  three time more and to my years  it sounds the bloody same?

It's very simple - if it doesn't sound better don't try (or ask others ) to justify it.

Wow, Tony, there you go you must have a NDS AND a 555DR (yes, I forgot to mention the NDS needs a power supply).

Seriously this combo is around £9k second hand and £13k new. You should really listen to the NDX first (without a power supply) which you can pick up one for around £2.5 to £3k second hand. See if you can hear the difference in your system between the NDX and the Uniti. Tidal will be fine for this demo to save you setting up a NAS. If you can't hear an improvement (that is worth the money to you) then don't even bother with a NDS, it would never offer VFM.

If you like the NDX, get it and also set up a NAS as its server (only around £300). You can then demo a power supply for the NDX later, or even an NDS if you think it is worth it.

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

...
 Agree the NDS is very much more performant and open sounding than the NDX ..   ...

Simon

That's the first time I've heard the NDS being compared to a street entertainer or circus artist!

Tony2011 posted:

It was not enough  to convince me to upgrade. That's why I am still the Uniti.  I can't get my head around it!  How come it costs  three time more and to my years  it sounds the bloody same! 

 

The first thing I'd do is try to understand why you're not hearing a difference here, preferably with the help of a dealer. To my ears, the difference between the streamer/DAC in my Superuniti vs an NDX into the same system is considerable, and the difference between NDS and Uniti should be even more. A properly set up demo should make this very clear - then if you're still not convinced, walk away with your bank balance intact. 

On a separate note, 282/300 doesn't have a reputation as a good match. Not heard it myself, but maybe this wasn't helping your comparison?

nigelb posted:

Wow, Tony, there you go you must have a NDS AND a 555DR (yes, I forgot to mention the NDS needs a power supply).

Seriously this combo is around £9k second hand and £13k new. You should really listen to the NDX first (without a power supply) which you can pick up one for around £2.5 to £3k second hand. See if you can hear the difference in your system between the NDX and the Uniti. Tidal will be fine for this demo to save you setting up a NAS. If you can't hear an improvement (that is worth the money to you) then don't even bother with a NDS, it would never offer VFM.

If you like the NDX, get it and also set up a NAS as its server (only around £300). You can then demo a power supply for the NDX later, or even an NDS if you think it is worth it.

Very sensible advice from NigelB.

NDS is a very specialised weapon, one to be used with caution. The amount of info it extracts from each recording can be overwhealming to untrained ears.