Optimal speakers for NAC-N 272 / NAP 250DR combination

You'll find fans of just about every speaker brand on the forum, so clearly there's no single answer. What I would add to your criteria is that the room also has a big part to play, especially in the obvious aspects of size and speaker position. Being able to place speakers in open space compared with close to a wall or an alcove has a real impact, so home listening is really essential before making that final choice.

Regarding your two options, the SF is a more expensive speaker than some people would choose to partner your 272/250, but of course that's your call. If you like the SF sound, then for a smaller room (and budget) maybe try the Olympica 1 standmount? 

The PMC Twenty range is imminently updating to the Twenty5, so you might either want one of the new range or a discount on the old. Anyway, there are a lot of Naim owners with PMCs, so you won't go far wrong.

FWIW - and you'll get a lot of opinions on speakers, so IW not much I guess, the ATC SCM40s are stunning and relatively easy to position. Of the passive speakers at roughly that price point, they're what I would get.

Thanks for the reply.  

Can you describe/elaborate on the sound of the SCM40 in words?  I need to understand the meaning of "monitor" speakers, does it men they are too dry?  i read in one report that although the sound quality is very good, the soundstage is not adequate.  How this can be i have no idea.

So on the balance would you think the Olympica ii, is an OTT selection for the N272 / 250DR?

I thought when I heard the Olympica 2 yesterday that the 272/250 DR was really up to that level of speakers, no issues at all.

Some Linn fans over on Lejonklou or Linn forums are replacing their expensive Linn & ATC speakers for JBL 3677 home Theater speakers, surpriced ? yeah but will give them a chance if size is no problem ?

Focal sopra n2 its like glows on hands for 272/250, you dont need to trust me just go to auditions.

Focal Sopra No2 maybe, but are double the price of the Olympica ii !!!

Hmm, yes, due respect to the JBL 3677 speakers and folks who bought them, but you'll need a blindfold. Those are not attractive things to have in your lounge. 

And at the other price extreme, the Focal Sopra 2 is a delightful speaker I'm sure, but it's very expensive. (And to me, it looks permanently surprised, as if it's just seen a mouse.)

@Paristhea, let no-one tell you there's a wrong speaker or price point for your 272/250. You have a wonderful source and amp, and there are a large number of speaker options which will do it justice. It's really about picking the right ones for your wallet and ears - and in your own space, not a dealer's room. A common view is 'source first', on the basis that the speakers can only play at the SQ provided by the source components, and can't improve on it. On that basis, many people consider that source components are more important in the chain (and therefore more worthy of investment) than speakers. But only your own ears can determine whether that's true for you.

To answer your question more directly, my best description of ATCs is that they're musical - they get right to the heart of melody and rhythm without the histrionics of many speakers. They won't slam you with bass or wow you with stereo imaging (although they're fine in both regards), but they will transport you. If you want to listen to how great your speakers are, look elsewhere, but if you want to listen to how great your music is, I recommend ATC. Of course, many other speakers will do that too - I'm a big fan of both PMC and Focal, though I haven't heard the more expensive ones in those ranges.

Titan's then ?

walk over Focal

There is of course no objectively optimal speaker for the system, merely the one you like best. The only thing I'd say is that rather than getting £6,500 speakers, get an XPSDR and £3,000 speakers. If you go secondhand, you can assemble an incredible system for the money. 

Another for the XPSDR makes an incredible difference to the 272/250 combination heard this with Sopra 1 and 2 speakers both rather good but will sound excellent with a wide range of speakers, please listen to speakers as they all have there own signiture some you will like others you might not hence a listen is a must.

Focal work well, I had Aria 926 and they worked pretty well, used S400s would be good too (I used these on an NDS system) HH makes a valid point, in the end I went for high end speakers that are perhaps above the 272/250 combo but without an XPSDR in place. 

Hungry Halibut, what if i could buy the Olympica ii for £4,500 instead of  £6,500?  And i have no problems at all going for a second hand speaker.  Personally i do not want to spend more than £3,000-3,500 for speakers.  If it is more, i will have to sell the PM1 to finance the difference.

Solid Air, the SCM40 specification seems to suggest that the bass will only go down to 48Hz, which i find far too little.  I am looking for speakers that could start from 35Hz upwards, as the 250DR can deliver this adequately.

And why is the XPSDR so important?

Hungryhalibut posted:

There is of course no objectively optimal speaker for the system, merely the one you like best. The only thing I'd say is that rather than getting £6,500 speakers, get an XPSDR and £3,000 speakers. If you go secondhand, you can assemble an incredible system for the money. 

Hi Nigel,

Normally I would agree with you, but in this case, based on what I heard, the XPS isn't going to turn a PMC 20.24 into a Sonus Faber olympica 2. 

If it were my system I would not buy an XPS for PMC 20.24, I would run the 272 bare and buy the SF speaker.

You really have the hear these speakers to understand why I would say this. They are superb and really world class. I could not hear any flaws, any weaknesses, nothing that I would want to improve on. Perfection ! This is the very first speaker I have heard in this price that has made me think, "well maybe source isn't first". The PMC has a strong character of it's own, but the SF just sounded like real, live music. 

And 272.250 is a hi end system, really capable of driving these speakers without any weaknesses, if there were any I would have heard them during the many hours we spent auditioning them. As you know the 250 DR is very capable.

and 272 bare with 250 is a good source/preamp/power amp system thanks to 250 DR, the demands on the preamp are now much less than before (previously 250.2 needed a 282/SC to really sing according to Richard Dane).

As you said above, there is no optimum speaker, only the one you like best

I have been running PMC 20-26 with the XPSDR 272 250DR over this past year to good effect, the 26s do need a fair bit of space but give wonderful results in this set-up, they also offer a very big lift in performance terms over their smaller siblings the 24s as they should do for the added cost, as others have mentioned PMC are about to launch their new range the 25 and will be discounting the current 20 range by 10% or so I believe. 

Focal would be another speaker I would look at, the Sopra no2 would appear a good match, if at all possible do try and get a home demo as speakers are so room dependent.

As others have mentioned, adding an external PS to your 272 will also give a good performance uplift, well worth considering imo.

Good luck with your search.

With regards to the SCM40 - and speakers in general - different designs do different things.

Because ATC uses a sealed box design, the bass extension isn't as low as some. The benefit of that comes in the immediacy and musicality of the bass. Some speakers go lower, but the bass gets flabby and samey - every bass sound is kind-of the same 'whump' and, to my ears, the transients can get ruined. ATCs don't do that. 

Of course, I'm not suggesting the ATC SCM40 is comparable to Focal or SF speakers at much higher prices. And it's always about what your ears tell you. I'm just saying that the Hz data doesn't isn't terribly informative about how bass actually sounds. 

Paristhea posted:

Hungry Halibut, what if i could buy the Olympica ii for £4,500 instead of  £6,500?  And i have no problems at all going for a second hand speaker.  Personally i do not want to spend more than £3,000-3,500 for speakers.  If it is more, i will have to sell the PM1 to finance the difference.

Solid Air, the SCM40 specification seems to suggest that the bass will only go down to 48Hz, which i find far too little.  I am looking for speakers that could start from 35Hz upwards, as the 250DR can deliver this adequately.

And why is the XPSDR so important?

The XPS raises the 272 to a whole new level; one that better matches higher end speakers. Let's assume that my speakers (they cost me £2,100 used) are of similar quality to the Olympicas; I bought them when I had a 272/250 but in the knowledge that I would get an XPS. So, if you can get the Olympicas and an XPS later, I'm sure they will be great. But if getting them would make an XPS impossible, I'd get something more modest. That's just me though.

Paristhea posted:

And why is the XPSDR so important?

Put one in between a 272 and a 250, have a listen, and it will take you about 10 seconds to decide for yourself. 

adding the PS to my 272 has been frankly remarkable in its uplift .... in fact ive stopped looking at new speakers (for now)

There IS an optimum speaker for the 272/250DR combination, it being the Ovator S400. It will be fine in your room with about 15-30cm from the back wall. Forget about all this "listen for yourself in your room" nonsense. Get a pair second hand and then eventually get the XPSDR when funds permit. Avoid pussy footing around. KC has spoken! Naim from "soup to nuts" is the answer.

Paristhea posted:

Hungry Halibut, what if i could buy the Olympica ii for £4,500 instead of  £6,500?  And i have no problems at all going for a second hand speaker.  Personally i do not want to spend more than £3,000-3,500 for speakers.  If it is more, i will have to sell the PM1 to finance the difference.

Solid Air, the SCM40 specification seems to suggest that the bass will only go down to 48Hz, which i find far too little.  I am looking for speakers that could start from 35Hz upwards, as the 250DR can deliver this adequately.

And why is the XPSDR so important?

Take no notice of the atc 48hz figure, they are full range and go very deep, in fact I'm returning a pair of 40 actives for scm19 actives as the low frequencies are too much for my approx 4m x 4m room. They had a lot more bottom end than pmc twenty 24 to my ears, though not as much as pmc twenty 26. Can't go wrong with scm40 or twenty 26. New pmc twenty 5 range may also be worth listening to.

Kiwi cat posted:

There IS an optimum speaker for the 272/250DR combination, it being the Ovator S400. It will be fine in your room with about 15-30cm from the back wall. Forget about all this "listen for yourself in your room" nonsense. Get a pair second hand and then eventually get the XPSDR when funds permit. Avoid pussy footing around. KC has spoken! Naim from "soup to nuts" is the answer.

Kiwi cat posted:

There IS an optimum speaker for the 272/250DR combination, it being the Ovator S400. It will be fine in your room with about 15-30cm from the back wall. Forget about all this "listen for yourself in your room" nonsense. Get a pair second hand and then eventually get the XPSDR when funds permit. Avoid pussy footing around. KC has spoken! Naim from "soup to nuts" is the answer.

Nice one Kiwi Cat but I heard the S400..... at the time I didn't think I could get along with it, maybe if I heard it today it would be different. I use to have a B&W 805S speaker (the only B&W other than 802D that I like), it was just completely different. 

Having said that when I did hear the Naim intros, I liked them instantly.

Halloween Man posted:

Take no notice of the atc 48hz figure, they are full range and go very deep, in fact I'm returning a pair of 40 actives for scm19 actives as the low frequencies are too much for my approx 4m x 4m room. They had a lot more bottom end than pmc twenty 24 to my ears, though not as much as pmc twenty 26. Can't go wrong with scm40 or twenty 26. New pmc twenty 5 range may also be worth listening to.

HM, Your experience with low frequencies could have more to do with your square and relatively small room than the various speakers' performance on the low end. You probably have strong bass modes occurring. Have you tried corner bass traps? They can help quell resonant frequencies on the bottom end and provide more coherence to the overall sound.

I'm using the NAC272/XPSDR/NAP300 with SF Olympica III and I am really happy with it...

What a lot of people on this forum tend to forget, is that most of us (especially the ones that don't live in the UK) only have a limited number of brands available.  And I strongly belief you should only buy at a good dealer, someone you trust and who can give you the support you need!

But I agree it's all about the room: once I attended a demo of a ND5XS/202/etc with SF Olympica I in a room with very good acoustic circumstances and I was blow away!! Much better than the Superunity SF Olympica III in the crappy adjacent room...

PS the SF Olympica looks really really good  in flesh!!

If was my money... ProAc d40r.  One of the best i ever heard.