ND5XS Upgrade - PSU or Dac?

I'd suggest forgetting the ND5 and waiting until you can find an NDX. You can get them used for £2,200 or so. The NDX is the appropriate match for your amplifier; it's even the same size.

I had an ND5XS. Comparable SQ to my Shearne Audio CD player it effectively replaced. I was persuaded to add an XP5XS - marginal improvement, but really reather disappointing for the money. I the sold the XP5XS and bought a Hugo DAC - a more distinct SQ improvement - my brother-in-law who always swore vinyly sounded better suddenly went quiet - and a net cost saving.

That then paved the way to upgrade replacement of the ND5XS with Mac Mini and Audirvana into the Hugo but that's another story.

I would wait for a good NDX. There is a significant difference between ND5XS and NDX in terms of sound quality.
NDX is a natural partner for other classic series components, like 202 and 200.

Another vote for NDX here!

Neither ND5XS or NDX can outperform Naim DAC in sound quality though, and that's what matters in the end.

This is why I'd recommend going for the ND5XS and later on add Naim DAC as first upgrade. You get the streaming experience of ND5XS and sound quality of Naim DAC, a perfect combination. ND5XS works perfectly as a transport between server and Naim DAC. ND5XS as a transport might be my next step also but currently I have my server/PC so close to my setup that I can use USB transport to connect. Only after these steps, I would consider the PSU's. 

Btw, have you guys compared ND5XS and NDX as transports only, using the digital output to Naim DAC? I would suspect that there's very small, even non existent difference between the two when used as transports only. I might be wrong though. I've tried them both but not at the same time so I can't really tell if there was any difference. ND5XS was pretty much on par with my USB transport. 

Patu posted:

Neither ND5XS or NDX can outperform Naim DAC in sound quality though, and that's what matters in the end.

This is why I'd recommend going for the ND5XS and later on add Naim DAC as first upgrade. You get the streaming experience of ND5XS and sound quality of Naim DAC, a perfect combination. ND5XS works perfectly as a transport between server and Naim DAC. ND5XS as a transport might be my next step also but currently I have my server/PC so close to my setup that I can use USB transport to connect. Only after these steps, I would consider the PSU's. 

Btw, have you guys compared ND5XS and NDX as transports only, using the digital output to Naim DAC? I would suspect that there's very small, even non existent difference between the two when used as transports only. I might be wrong though. I've tried them both but not at the same time so I can't really tell if there was any difference. ND5XS was pretty much on par with my USB transport. 

I disagree with you Patu.

NDX5PS is a weaker performer of the two - I tested ND5XS and NDX both as a stand alone streamers and via DC1 into nDAC. To my ears there was a clear difference in both cases, with NDX sounding better. It has a better DAC, larger transformer and serves as a higher quality digital transport.

My suggestion remains - start with an NDX.

Adam Zielinski posted:

Patu posted:

Neither ND5XS or NDX can outperform Naim DAC in sound quality though, and that's what matters in the end.

This is why I'd recommend going for the ND5XS and later on add Naim DAC as first upgrade. You get the streaming experience of ND5XS and sound quality of Naim DAC, a perfect combination. ND5XS works perfectly as a transport between server and Naim DAC. ND5XS as a transport might be my next step also but currently I have my server/PC so close to my setup that I can use USB transport to connect. Only after these steps, I would consider the PSU's. 

Btw, have you guys compared ND5XS and NDX as transports only, using the digital output to Naim DAC? I would suspect that there's very small, even non existent difference between the two when used as transports only. I might be wrong though. I've tried them both but not at the same time so I can't really tell if there was any difference. ND5XS was pretty much on par with my USB transport. 

I disagree with you Patu.

NDX5PS is a weaker performer of the two - I tested ND5XS and NDX both as a stand alone streamers and via DC1 into nDAC. To my ears there was a clear difference in both cases, with NDX sounding better. It has a better DAC, larger transformer and serves as a higher quality digital transport.

My suggestion remains - start with an NDX.

I appreciate your view Adam. I can't but feel that using NDX only as transport is huge waste of money and resources. There's so much capacity left unused (DAC and analog out) when you use NDX as transport only. That's why I stick with my recommendation as ND5XS but only if used as transport. 

Moderated Post:  Please read forum rules and ensure you understand them. Thank you.

I have a problem calling any streamer (renderer) a "transport" when used on digital output into a DAC,  I feel its a bit disingenuous.  Yes its not using the DAC & the analogue stages.   The front end however brings so much more to the ; streamer module, ARM9, DSP, various clock, isolation & buffer modules & stages.    

Fully agree Mike - and those account for a sound difference in a 'digital' mode. 

..........  whoops ...........  I missed out my main points,  rushing & distracted with other stuff  

...........   The front end however brings so much more to the  machine than does the front end - the transport - on a CD player;  a streamer has a streamer module, ARM9, DSP, various clock, isolation & buffer modules & stages & it makes up not far off 80% of the whole player,  whereas with a CDP using only the "transport" not far off 80% is wasted   

Sorry for mixing terms. I do understand that streamer has more functions than to server just as transport like my USB transport does. 

Anyway, I'd look for some option which includes Naim DAC in the source chain. NDX has fun sound but it loses in resolution, soundstage and smoothness to the Naim DAC. It can be a great standalone source though but needs careful matching. In my system it first sounded fun and had some true Naim magic in the sound. So much that I actually bought one. But in the long run, it started to sound fatiguing and slightly too clinical to my taste. I tried some tweaking with cables and stuff but couldn't make it sing like I wanted so back to Naim DAC. At the moment, I couldn't be happier to my system's performance. 

Patu posted:

Adam Zielinski posted:

Patu posted:

Neither ND5XS or NDX can outperform Naim DAC in sound quality though, and that's what matters in the end.

This is why I'd recommend going for the ND5XS and later on add Naim DAC as first upgrade. You get the streaming experience of ND5XS and sound quality of Naim DAC, a perfect combination. ND5XS works perfectly as a transport between server and Naim DAC. ND5XS as a transport might be my next step also but currently I have my server/PC so close to my setup that I can use USB transport to connect. Only after these steps, I would consider the PSU's. 

Btw, have you guys compared ND5XS and NDX as transports only, using the digital output to Naim DAC? I would suspect that there's very small, even non existent difference between the two when used as transports only. I might be wrong though. I've tried them both but not at the same time so I can't really tell if there was any difference. ND5XS was pretty much on par with my USB transport. 

I disagree with you Patu.

NDX5PS is a weaker performer of the two - I tested ND5XS and NDX both as a stand alone streamers and via DC1 into nDAC. To my ears there was a clear difference in both cases, with NDX sounding better. It has a better DAC, larger transformer and serves as a higher quality digital transport.

My suggestion remains - start with an NDX.

I appreciate your view Adam. I can't but feel that using NDX only as transport is huge waste of money and resources. There's so much capacity left unused (DAC and analog out) when you use NDX as transport only. That's why I stick with my recommendation as ND5XS but only if used as transport. 

I think the correct term is renderer not transport, transport in this context to my mind being a mechanical device, ie a CD player.

There are a number of contributors who have compared NDX as renderer feeding Hugo DAC and found it better than NDX with its own DAC. And IIRC there are others who have compared that with Mac Mini/Audirvana into Hugo and found latter better still - i have no experience of NDX, but MM/Audiv/isolator/Hugo beats ND5XS SQ with or without XP5XS, and also compared to ND5XS as renderer + Hugo, so that's where I put my money, and wished I had known earlier. From another thread it seems like the way to beat Mac Min/Audirvana as renderer is a Melco...

Hi Guys,

I have several setups at home and have both an ND5XS and an NDX, I have a couple of Naim DACs and I have both an XPS and 555PS ... I've tried various combinations and this is the order in which I would rate them...

ND5XS

NDX

ND5XS + XPS

ND5XS + 555PS

NDX + XPS

NDX + 555PS

ND5XS + DAC & NDX + DAC (To be honest *I* can't tell them apart used as a "transport" but I'm happy to accept that others might do...)

ND5XS + DAC + XPS & NDX + DAC + XPS

ND5XS + DAC + 555PS & NDX + DAC + 555PS

I use an HDX + Naim DAC + 555PS in my "500" setup (552 / 552PS / 500 / 500PS / DBLs) which is currently packed away due to space considerations and generally use an NDX/ND5XS + Naim DAC + XPS into my "252" setup (252 / SuperCap / 300s & 300PSs).

Of course the great thing about this hobby is that it's all very subjective and "your mileage may vary" but that's what *I* found myself.

Cheers

Phil

Hi Phil,

If you're tight for space at your end, I'll happily "store" your 552 / 500 / DBL's here, for no charge! 

Dave.

dave marshall posted:

Hi Phil,

If you're tight for space at your end, I'll happily "store" your 552 / 500 / DBL's here, for no charge! 

Dave.

Thanks for the offer - oddly my best mate made me exactly the same offer and he's  been "storing" it for me for the last 18 months ... I keep asking him if he minds but he seems happy enough with the arrangement.

Phil

Phil Harris posted:

Hi Guys,

I have several setups at home and have both an ND5XS and an NDX, I have a couple of Naim DACs and I have both an XPS and 555PS ... I've tried various combinations and this is the order in which I would rate them...

ND5XS

NDX

ND5XS + XPS

ND5XS + 555PS

NDX + XPS

NDX + 555PS

ND5XS + DAC & NDX + DAC (To be honest *I* can't tell them apart used as a "transport" but I'm happy to accept that others might do...)

ND5XS + DAC + XPS & NDX + DAC + XPS

ND5XS + DAC + 555PS & NDX + DAC + 555PS

I use an HDX + Naim DAC + 555PS in my "500" setup (552 / 552PS / 500 / 500PS / DBLs) which is currently packed away due to space considerations and generally use an NDX/ND5XS + Naim DAC + XPS into my "252" setup (252 / SuperCap / 300s & 300PSs).

Of course the great thing about this hobby is that it's all very subjective and "your mileage may vary" but that's what *I* found myself.

Cheers

Phil

Phil, your ranking is quite interesting re the nd5 + ndac. What happens with the FM signal in such a case (nd5 + ndac feeding a preamp)?

thanks!

Thank you for all of your help, advice and ideas I think I will most probably go down the ND5 XS/NAIM DAC route eventually adding a psu.

Chrissw19 posted:

Phil Harris posted:

 

Phil, your ranking is quite interesting re the nd5 + ndac. What happens with the FM signal in such a case (nd5 + ndac feeding a preamp)?

 

thanks!

Strange enough the FM / DAB signal also goes throuhg the digital output, via nDAC and into an amp.

That is how my NDX with FM/DAB module works (the connection is: NDX > via DC1 > nDAC > DIN analogue > SuperNait2).

I get a normal FM / DAB reception this way.

Adam

I know it's not a fashionable thing to say on this forum, but the ND5 on its own is really rather good.  I've no doubt the NDX is better, but it does so with a 50%+ price premium (whether new or used).

Of course ND5XS is good - it is a fine streamer. NDX is better and NDS even better.

1 beer is good, 2 beers are better and 3 are even better.

Life is simple

No No No !!!!  This is not about quantity, its all about quality:    1 Danish beer is good,  1 German beer is better, 1 Krakow beer is  even better.   But we will not open it up to English beers as they - like the best audio from Salisbury - are clearly the best.   

Nd5xs on its own is pretty good. ND5xs into Hugo is better. MacMini/Audirvana into Hugo is even better (and cheaper than ND5XS+Silent NAS). Apparently Melco+Hugo is better still, but a big step up in cost (not heard myself)... I imagine Melco+Dave must be quite something, but its only for the very well heeled.

Mike-B posted:

No No No !!!!  This is not about quantity, its all about quality:    1 Danish beer is good,  1 German beer is better, 1 Krakow beer is  even better.   But we will not open it up to English beers as they - like the best audio from Salisbury - are clearly the best.   

And just like hifi gear sounding different, beers all taste different - at least real ales do, I'm not convinced about mainstream lagers...