Sudden dropout problem.

Assuming media server and streamer used wired Ethernet, it sounds like the media server is clearing down the play out for some reason, or the streamer is aborting because of some error condition from the media server.

Try running a DLNA/UPnP  type media server like Asset or MinimServer on your server and see if that improves.. If it happens again both those apps can enable logging to see what is perhaps happening underneath the covers.

Simon

Your system set up description is not clear,  can you tell us exactly how you have the ND5 connected, wired or wireless,  if wired from were to were via what,  what wireless router,  what media server ........  

Wireless. 

OK,  but not answering all the questions.  Wireless is not ideal,  it has reliability issues.    Running for a few minutes means its losing the network & that might be the ND5, router or the laptop.  An all system power cycle including the router - router switched back on first & let it complete the start process - might be worthwhile.  What media server are you using on the laptop.   Also your comment re Google Play rating on the Naim app is nothing to be concerned about,  the app is a communication facilitator,  it does nothing other than get the parts talking to each other.

Is this your only way of playing with the ND5, or do you have plans to go wired & with some form of NAS.

"Streaming music files from my laptop with the NAIM app using Android."

"However, running files direct from my server (Lenovo Thinkpad with Windows Media Player)...,"

What's a "NAS"?

It's EXTREMELY underwhelming to find that £2000+ of wireless equipment doesn't work wirelessly.

With due respect Mike,  yes its dissapointing if you expect it to work completely wirelessly. Wireless will always have limitations with reliability, plus its limited with file size that will probably limit it to 16/44  & also sound quality.   However from your answers it appears you need to understand a lot more about what's involved;  what has your Naim dealer done to help?  did they advise how to set it up or talk about how you were planning to do this ??       

"Streaming music files from my laptop with the NAIM app using Android."        The Naim app does nothing - as I said in my previous post, its a communication facilitator, It does not carry a signal.  It sets up a communication link between the laptop with its installed media server & the ND5.  

"However, running files direct from my server (Lenovo Thinkpad with Windows Media Player)...,"       I don't recognise Windows Media Player as a media server,  per Simon, you need a pukka DLNA/UPnP type media server like Asset or MinimServer.

A NAS is a Network Attached Storage - in one form or other (NAS, mini-Mac, UnitiServe) its what 99% of the people on the forum have.   A few use laptops,  but how they do it I am not at all sure,  I get the impression its not done over wireless.   

Windows Media Player is connectable wirelessly to my NAIM box presumably via my TPLink router, so I assume it's a "server"? It was working perfectly well up until yesterday evening.

So now I need a MinimServer. I guess I'll give that a go, then. Good job I didn't buy a Sonos box for my Deezer collection. I'd then be buying TWO extra bits to make it work. 

Still feel disappointed that NAIM haven't managed to design for efficient pairing with the most ubiquitous media streaming software on the planet.

I'd like to hear from laptop streamers how they manage it. Are they using "Asset" and/or "Minimserve" on their laptops, or do I have to buy yet another box to make the NAIM box work?

Hi Mike,

You need to speak to the dealer who sold you the ND5XS. Did he install it? He's supposed to, so you are entitled to an explanation of how to set your new box. If wired isn't possible there are other options than wireless.

Keith

I understand the frustration,  but the ND5 is a network player (network means a network with various other components & they are wired)  Wireless links in place of wired ethernet can be used,  but each is a weak link & laptop to router & router to ND5 is two links.   

RE was OK until yesterday,  going back to my previous post,  I would reboot the whole system (power off & wait 5 mins & then on again,  starting from the router).  It might not fix whatever its problem is but it will reset it all & clear any bad links.   

Then you need to think about a proper network & get the best from your ND5.   To listen to whats possible,  get some 24-bit tracks in WAV or FLAC loaded on a USB stick,  you can get free sample tracks from www,  then listen to whats possible.   

Think I'll go back to the dealer. Thanks all, anyway...

So - according to NAIM's Tech Dep, in principle, there should be no problem at all streaming music files with Windows Media from a laptop.

Ethernet cable, then. Probably...

Ethernet cables . . . and a switch.  (Reminds me of one of the closing scenes from The Jerk:  "This is all I need . . . ethernet cables, and a switch . . . and this lamp.)

Mike1951 posted:

So - according to NAIM's Tech Dep, in principle, there should be no problem at all streaming music files with Windows Media from a laptop.

I don't doubt it,  you proved that yourself as it worked up to yesterday.  The problem is its not designed for this purpose, it has no software to do all the things a designed for the purpose software package such as Minimserver provides & I believe it might have issues with some codec's that MS do not have a licence agreement for.

I also doubt Windows Media Server was the cause of the dropped connection,  I still recommend a power cycle to re-establish its links.  Although wireless can work it's not ideal for high quality audio as its wireless not reliable enough to maintain a consistent data stream & it does result in lost connections.  

The answer to your problems are a real network & using one or other of the well established ways of doing this & your dealer should be helping you with this.     

Mike - fwiw I stream wirelessly to an SU from files stored on a PC in another room.  I have Minimserver running on the PC and use the Naim App on an IPad.  Minimserver is very easy to install.  System works fine for me.

If wired is not an option you could look at powerlines which use the mains to transmit music from the server to the streamer. It's not ideal, but probably better than wireless. Mike's reboot suggestion is worth a try too.

Im sure you will be able to fix it.

Keith

Mike1951 posted:

Think I'll go back to the dealer. Thanks all, anyway...

Let us know how you get on.. The dealer has an important part to play with quality audio such as Naim equipment... In terms of set up and education... Wifi and  wireless workarounds - like Ethernet over mains options have  their place but they also have their limitations and drawbacks.. and the latter is a big compromise and far from ideal.  These are not consumer toys that you can just throw together if you want them to work optimally

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Mike1951 posted:

Think I'll go back to the dealer. Thanks all, anyway...

Let us know how you get on.. The dealer has an important part to play with quality audio such as Naim equipment... In terms of set up and education... Wifi and  wireless workarounds - like Ethernet over mains options have  their place but they also have their limitations and drawbacks.. and the latter is a big compromise and far from ideal.  These are not consumer toys that you can just throw together if you want them to work optimally

I'll add only that with both wifi and ethernet-over-mains, the term "YMMV" applies.  (Your mileage may vary.)  Both technologies CAN work, but variables at the site of use (home construction, layout, size, presence of other devices and their state of repair, age, leakage of rfi, etc.) can prove to be the difference between "it works fine" and "I'm going to throw this kit out of the window."  Ethernet cabling removes those variables.  You still need a proper set-up, but the ghosts that can plague wifi and ethernet-over-mains usually are dispatched.

If your wireless system worked fine until two days ago then started dropping out, it's also possible that a neighbour has just bought a piece of wireless kit that's now competing for time with your wireless network.

That's one of the problems with WiFi: there's limited bandwidth shared among ALL wireless devices in the area (yours and other people's).  Also, each time a device get's a time slot an additional bit of time is taken up reestablishing the connection, making it even less efficient than it superficially appears to be.

As wireless is radio, the problem can be externally caused, and you may not have control over the source of the problem.  This shows up particularly with streaming as streaming is real time, you can wait until an html page starts to load via WiFi, but a break waiting for the next part of an audio stream is a problem (buffering ameliorates this, but can't eliminate the problem completely).

Am finding the whole WiFi debate a little tenuous. As a means of shared usage, it has been freely used since the turn of the century. I have numerous devices connected via this method including computers, phones, printers streamed television programmes and of course music. Music is hosted from PCs, Mac, iPad, NAS or iPhone. My average speed of connection to my ISP is about 35 Mbps and the internal wifi speed is about 50 Mbps. Even if your ISP is only able to deliver 2 Mbps if you are using internally sourced files, such as a NAS, then you should still be able to get wifi speeds comparable to my own.  

Unless the whole network goes down, I never have a problem with my music, whether from a NAS or a streamed source such as Spotify or iTunes. Some , but not all my NAS sourced music is WAV. I use a combination of a Muso, B&W A7 and an AV amp for my music and none of them feature the problems described above. The AV amp is the only one hard wired to the network but that is because it is near the router. Something is not right with your streaming hardware. 

andarkian posted:

Am finding the whole WiFi debate a little tenuous. 

I'd posit that it's not a debate -- it's empirical.  But maybe we're saying the same thing . . . Are there varied underlying causes - yes.  Would better wifi hardware solve some of the issues - maybe / probably.  Could it be other hardware issues - absolutely.

I came close to allowing my local hi fi shop install a very robust, high-end (and thus "expensive") wifi system in my home.  I was pulling my hair out (what little I have left) over intermittent Naim App connectivity and other networking issues with my Qute and NDS.  My wife was mocking me for spending all this money and not being able to play music without dropouts.  I was ranting about this to Chris West, when he made the brilliant suggestion of disconnecting all other devices from the network, one at a time, to see if something else was causing a problem. Sure enough, it was my Apple Time Capsule; I could reproduce the problem every time I re-introduced the Time Capsule. I did a factory reset on it, and it's been bliss ever since.

Not disagreeing in any way. However, having to disconnect things piece by piece is unsatisfactory in itself. Sitting in the Conservatory listening to Paul Simon's lovely new album until this very moment when the iPad decided to disconnect, so that'll teach me!  Guess that's the end of this discussion as I want to listen to Paul Simon!