Speakers change

gary yeowell posted:

Mark, i had C7ES3 for a while with a similar system as yours. They did some nice things but ultimately for me they never really got to grips with what Naim does. I much preferred my Ovator and SL2. 

A speaker i tried recently and was very impressed with was the ATC SCM11. Smaller than most of the Harbeth and a genuine Naim partner. I would describe them as transparent rather than having too much of a signature which may tally with your request.

Hi Mark, I agree (again.. What is happening) with a lot of what Gary says here, I ran the C7ES3 for a while on a setup like yours albeit I was using a 282 then... the Harbeths were nice in the mid and sweet in the highs, but to my taste were very let down in the lower mid and bass, where the sounds to my palette become a little indistict and blurred as well as dynamics sat upon... whether it's to do with the reflex port or the thin walled cabinet I don't know... But alas I after a while it irritated and I sold them on.

The current ATC SCM range are very different.. There is no real sweetness, they are too neutral for that, so do partner well with Naim to allow the Naim voicing through, but crucially they are tight and fast with wonderfully resolving mids and bass with tight clear dynamics... albeit the bass is again natural rather than exagerated... The 11 are great for a smallish room, and the 19 for a medium room. (And the 40s for a larger room) .. Try and get a listen, but being more a pro brand rather than consumer, dealers are thin on the ground unfortunately. (However the ATC SCM 7, 11, 19, 40  is their consumer hifi range)

Simon

Ciao Naimark,

if you live in Lombardia I suggest you go in Calco, close to Lecco/Como, there is a nice Hi End audio dealer, you can find all Naim kit that you will demo with Harbeth, Ovators, Wilson (maybe it's out of your budget) and many others brands.

I demoed a lot of speaker with my Superuniti, Sonus Faber Olympica, Ovator 400 (I didn't like at all) , Harbeth beautiful sound but look ugly for me,  PMC  I loved the Fact 8 but too expensive. After a long time the seller asked me to listen ELAC, until then I had not considered; I was impressed, very refined and detailed sound. For your budget you can test the BS 314 the best standmount speaker that I've heard, sound better that the SF Olympica I for me,  or the FS 409 if you prefear floor stand model.

Regards

tonym posted

 

Hideous!

undersized speakers for that huge Naim kit!!

or maybe not

I would see in that picture some Magico model or Wilson Sasha

That was a few years ago. There is something much bigger these days.

Naimark posted:

Concerning xps I think to replace it with a 555ps, but ony after having changed the speakers.

I didn't like ovator s400 so much, and my room is not large (6x3).

I love Avalon sound, initially I was considerong Idea or Ascendant but out of budget.

I have to admit that harbeth 7 es 3 sounds good, not harsh and very natural sound, maybe a bit close, but the overall result was positive.

Next step is to try a super hl5 plus, telling me a very good speakers.

Naim sl2 is impossible to find in italy!

You should try the Harbeth Super HL5 Plus. Similarly I was told that this model is an "upgrade" from the previous Super HL5 which I currently own. From what I read, areas of improvement include a more coherent presentation with more defined midrange, less bass bloom (better bass definition) and overall a "faster-sounding" speaker. It may not sound as romantic or lush as the older model but is said to be a more balanced sounding speaker which seems to have addressed the slight "muddiness" of the older SHL5 in the mids. Having said that, some folks prefer the sound of the older SHL5. I am tempted to listen to the Super HL5 Plus at the dealers but am avoiding that at this point of time (I will only visit when I intend to change the speakers - that's just me).

The C7ES3 and Super HL5 (Plus) are my favourite speakers in the Harbeth line. Not too big and not to small with ample bass and scale for most small to medium-sized rooms.

gary yeowell posted:

Mark, i had C7ES3 for a while with a similar system as yours. They did some nice things but ultimately for me they never really got to grips with what Naim does. I much preferred my Ovator and SL2. 

A speaker i tried recently and was very impressed with was the ATC SCM11. Smaller than most of the Harbeth and a genuine Naim partner. I would describe them as transparent rather than having too much of a signature which may tally with your request.

I have not listened to the SCM11 but have listened to the SCM40s many years ago during a hifi show. They surely sound very different from the Harbeth. I am not sure if the SCM11s would sound almost the same as the SCM40s but I did find the SCM40s to be as described by most - lean, neutral, characterless. Ultimately, I find the SCM40 to be a detailed and analytical sounding speaker. No bloom in the mids, just an accurate sound when compared to the lush, warm and organic sounding Harbeth. The Harbeth plays music with more soul to me, but of course it's all subjective. It is true that the Harbeth may not "reveal" what the Naim electronics are capable of in speed, bass slam and dynamics, but the Naims surely injected some speed and dynamics into the Harbeth and made them sound quicker and more involving. That is my experience after I used many other amps with the Harbeth. The SHL5s sound slower and even lusher (more organic) with other amps out there. Some folks like that sort of sound I guess, a more romantic presentation. When it becomes too romantic, more dynamic music will not sound good on them IMO.

I have read a bit on the SCM11, SCM19 and SCM20 earlier after reading your post as well as Simon's. Apparently the speakers have been revamped and now look different. At some point of time in the near future I have plans to replace the SHL5 with the SHL5 Plus but will listen to the SCM19 (or SCM20) just to be sure. Have you listened to the SCM20s?

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

gary yeowell posted:

Mark, i had C7ES3 for a while with a similar system as yours. They did some nice things but ultimately for me they never really got to grips with what Naim does. I much preferred my Ovator and SL2. 

A speaker i tried recently and was very impressed with was the ATC SCM11. Smaller than most of the Harbeth and a genuine Naim partner. I would describe them as transparent rather than having too much of a signature which may tally with your request.

Hi Mark, I agree (again.. What is happening) with a lot of what Gary says here, I ran the C7ES3 for a while on a setup like yours albeit I was using a 282 then... the Harbeths were nice in the mid and sweet in the highs, but to my taste were very let down in the lower mid and bass, where the sounds to my palette become a little indistict and blurred as well as dynamics sat upon... whether it's to do with the reflex port or the thin walled cabinet I don't know... But alas I after a while it irritated and I sold them on.

The current ATC SCM range are very different.. There is no real sweetness, they are too neutral for that, so do partner well with Naim to allow the Naim voicing through, but crucially they are tight and fast with wonderfully resolving mids and bass with tight clear dynamics... albeit the bass is again natural rather than exagerated... The 11 are great for a smallish room, and the 19 for a medium room. (And the 40s for a larger room) .. Try and get a listen, but being more a pro brand rather than consumer, dealers are thin on the ground unfortunately. (However the ATC SCM 7, 11, 19, 40  is their consumer hifi range)

Simon

I can relate to your comment on the indistinct and blurred palette of the C7ES3 in the lower midrange and bass especially if you are used to (or into) the ATC's house sound. The *inadequate* definition in the lower mids and bass can be appealing to folks who value a lush and organic sort of presentation. On the other hand, a more defined and accurate presentation can sound analytical to some. In the end, it depends on the listening preference of the person when he chooses his speakers.

At some point of time I would investigate the ATCs. Are the current line of speakers (SCM series) assembled in the UK or China?

ryder. posted:

At some point of time I would investigate the ATCs. Are the current line of speakers (SCM series) assembled in the UK or China?

ATC claim that all their speakers are assembled in the UK. Additionally, all the drivers and electronics, and all but the "entry series" cabinets are manufactured in the UK ("entry series" is SCM7, 11, 19, 40 and 40A).

The source of this info is an interview with two of ATC's engineers on the website of Acoustic Frontiers, a US audio dealer. Forum AUP prevents me from linking to it, but you should find it easily enough via a search.

A couple of people have spoken favourably about the ATC SCM11. If that speaker piques your interest, don’t rule out the smaller (and less expensive) SCM7. I auditioned both last year. Although the SCM11 was better in some ways – a bigger, smoother, more “grown up” sound – I found the SCM7 better communicated the energy and emotion in the music, and I ended up buying a pair.

If you do go that route, be sure to choose your stands with care, as ATCs don't come with stands, unlike both of my previous speakers. Conventional wisdom says that ATC speakers like mass loaded stands, but after a couple of failed attempts, I ended up with a pair of Something Solid XFs, a lightweight open frame design, custom built to match the exact (tapered) footprint of the SCM7s, and am very happy. Just the other night, news of Dave Swarbrick’s death prompted me to put on Liege & Lief by Fairport Convention, an album I hadn’t listened to in a few years, and I was absolutely transported by Sandy Denny’s singing.

As others have said, an audition in your home is crucial. When I was putting my shortlist together, I had high hopes for PMC twenty.22, bolstered by my dealer’s enthusiasm for them. But they just did not work in my room, and they were quickly eliminated from consideration.

Good luck with the search, and please update us with your findings.

Colm

Hi I have not heard allot of speakers suggested above .... but I have heard pmc range ... and own pmc 20.21 which are great in small rooms. If you have the space your setup would be fantastic with pmc24 or 26.

Richard

Corry posted:

ryder. posted:

At some point of time I would investigate the ATCs. Are the current line of speakers (SCM series) assembled in the UK or China?

ATC claim that all their speakers are assembled in the UK. Additionally, all the drivers and electronics, and all but the "entry series" cabinets are manufactured in the UK ("entry series" is SCM7, 11, 19, 40 and 40A).

The source of this info is an interview with two of ATC's engineers on the website of Acoustic Frontiers, a US audio dealer. Forum AUP prevents me from linking to it, but you should find it easily enough via a search.

Thanks for the information. I have managed to find the link to the review on the Acoustic Frontiers website. It appears that only the cabinet of the "Entry Series" are manufactured abroad while the rest are all assembled in the UK.

I have read about the earlier ATC models (SCM7, SCM11 etc.) being assembled in China.

Corry posted:

A couple of people have spoken favourably about the ATC SCM11. If that speaker piques your interest, don’t rule out the smaller (and less expensive) SCM7. I auditioned both last year. Although the SCM11 was better in some ways – a bigger, smoother, more “grown up” sound – I found the SCM7 better communicated the energy and emotion in the music, and I ended up buying a pair.

If you do go that route, be sure to choose your stands with care, as ATCs don't come with stands, unlike both of my previous speakers. Conventional wisdom says that ATC speakers like mass loaded stands, but after a couple of failed attempts, I ended up with a pair of Something Solid XFs, a lightweight open frame design, custom built to match the exact (tapered) footprint of the SCM7s, and am very happy. Just the other night, news of Dave Swarbrick’s death prompted me to put on Liege & Lief by Fairport Convention, an album I hadn’t listened to in a few years, and I was absolutely transported by Sandy Denny’s singing.

As others have said, an audition in your home is crucial. When I was putting my shortlist together, I had high hopes for PMC twenty.22, bolstered by my dealer’s enthusiasm for them. But they just did not work in my room, and they were quickly eliminated from consideration.

Good luck with the search, and please update us with your findings.

Colm

Did you manage to listen to the latest SCM19? Interesting that the SCM7 better communicated the energy and emotion in the music than the SCM11. Getting into the soul of the music is surely important. Larger speakers would be more appropriate if one is looking for more scale and deeper bass, and for this reason the SCM11 and SCM19 will do better than the SCM7.

As I have mentioned earlier in my post above, speaker selection is such a personal thing. I have owned the PMC LB1 Signature and similarly they didn't do it for me either.

I didn't listen to the SCM19, because it was beyond my budget and because it's much bigger than the SCM7 and needs to sit further out in the room. Because of room layout restrictions, they just wouldn't work for me - there's a doorway on the left, and people come close to tripping up on the left hand speaker as it is (the small SCM7 sits within a few inches of the wall).

I also have a preference for small and visually unobtrusive speakers, regardless of other restrictions. My previous speakers were Linn Katans, before that I had Linn Kans (both pairs are still in my attic). That said, I think it's highly likely that I would really like the SCM19 if I heard them in a different (but sympathetic) room, with an appropriate system, etc. I've heard more than one person comment that the SCM19 is the true sweet spot of the current ATC range.