What next

Docv posted:

Hi Dayjay

Just to say that I sent you an email with my details over the weekend - it may have landed in your spam folder.

BW

Docv

Docv, I haven't received it.  I will have a look in my spam folder later and get back to you.

Thanks Dayjay

I have now also added my email address to my profile.

kind regards

Stewart

Doc,

I have posted this in another thread - but in case you did not see it you may appreciate my recent experience of taking the steps you describe.

I have now spent a couple of weeks using the nDAC with XPS-2 being fed by a Mac Mini with Audirvana.

Not once in the time that I have had it up and running have I had any desire to go back to my CDS2. I just want to listen to more and more music. So I regard my first foray into streaming as a success. There is not a single album where I am not hearing more and experiencing more than I did before.

Having got this far, and read an awful lot in these forums over the past few weeks, I have two more options to add into the mix.

I have ordered a Gustard to connect the MM to the nDAC to see if it is an improvement over the optical link (recommended by Naim, but not by Audirvana).

I have also acquired (it is in the post) a Chord Hugo. I want to see what all the noise is about (excuse the terrible pun). I was speaking to a Naim and Chord dealer and although he could not demonstrate it to me that day, he was unequivocal and unhesitant that Chord were way ahead of Naim in terms of DAC sound and technology.

Thanks for this update. I have just auditioned a MM/Audirvana/Gustard/Hugo combo with Naim amplification courtesy of DayJay who kindly gave me the chance to learn more about streaming and listen to his set up.

It was great and worked brilliantly with a good variety of music including Miles Davis, Dylan, 10CC, K West and more. To my ears it was superbly detailed, separated the instruments well, integrated the dynamic ranges in a natural manner and drew you in to simply enjoy the music. 

I will be very interested to hear your comments on the nDAC/Hugo comparison. You are probably aware that Audirvana now has an upstreaming function which is a further development which should be fun to explore.

I am itching to start collecting and connecting the kit - will post when it's up and running.

Docv posted:

Thanks for this update. I have just auditioned a MM/Audirvana/Gustard/Hugo combo with Naim amplification courtesy of DayJay who kindly gave me the chance to learn more about streaming and listen to his set up.

It was great and worked brilliantly with a good variety of music including Miles Davis, Dylan, 10CC, K West and more. To my ears it was superbly detailed, separated the instruments well, integrated the dynamic ranges in a natural manner and drew you in to simply enjoy the music. 

 

I will be very interested to hear your comments on the nDAC/Hugo comparison. You are probably aware that Audirvana now has an upstreaming function which is a further development which should be fun to explore.

I am itching to start collecting and connecting the kit - will post when it's up and running.

 

 

 

 

Glad you enjoyed it Docv, and lovely to meet you.  Just a slight correction though in that I'm using an Uptone USB Regen rather than the Gustard

DayJay,

I am curious - what makes you use the Uptone rather than simply plug the USB from the MM into the USB of the Hugo?

I can understand on the nDAC as a converter is needed as it does not accept USB.

Thank you.

David

Apologies Dayjay

I will be looking into the Gustard so had it in mind.

I have been searching eBay for a MM but may buy a new one.

Probs go for a used Hugo though.

SpecCled Trout posted:

DayJay,

I am curious - what makes you use the Uptone rather than simply plug the USB from the MM into the USB of the Hugo?

I can understand on the nDAC as a converter is needed as it does not accept USB.

Thank you.

David

The UpTone isn't a converter, it cuts the power supply from the MM and replaces it with a 'clean' supply and reclocks the USB signal.  That, along with a Jitterbug provides an improvement over the bare MM for a relatively low cost and , to me, well worth doing. You are right, the MM/Huggo set up doesn't need a converter

SpecCled Trout posted:

DayJay,

I am curious - what makes you use the Uptone rather than simply plug the USB from the MM into the USB of the Hugo?

I can understand on the nDAC as a converter is needed as it does not accept USB.

Thank you.

David

See first para of my response timed at 6/11/16 4.59 pm.

There are various isolators, I use the Gustard U12: I don't know how it compares to the uptone, but it is newer than the UpTone and has had nothing but good reviews. Richard Dane is in the process of comparing it with Yellowtec PUC2, for use as USB convertor for nDAC.

dayjay posted:

SpecCled Trout posted:

DayJay,

I am curious - what makes you use the Uptone rather than simply plug the USB from the MM into the USB of the Hugo?

I can understand on the nDAC as a converter is needed as it does not accept USB.

Thank you.

David

The UpTone isn't a converter, it cuts the power supply from the MM and replaces it with a 'clean' supply and reclocks the USB signal.  That, along with a Jitterbug provides an improvement over the bare MM for a relatively low cost and , to me, well worth doing. You are right, the MM/Huggo set up doesn't need a converter

Technically the reclock is unnecessary, as Hugo does that when it receives the signal, and is claimed to be jitter-proof. What it is susceptible to are rf and other noise, so needs galvanic ant rf isolation. GUstard does that (I don't know enough aboutbthe UpTone to comment on whether as effective).

I don't really care what it does as long as it makes the music sound better, which is does to a degree way beyond its price.  The Jitterbug is even better value at only £40.  There are many many reviews on both all over the forums and on the net which is usually a good start point.

So the Gustard is equally as valid as part of the signal chain for the Hugo as it is for the nDAC.

What interconnects are recommended - MM to Gustard, Gustard to Hugo?

Thank you.

SpecCled Trout posted:

So the Gustard is equally as valid as part of the signal chain for the Hugo as it is for the nDAC.

What interconnects are recommended - MM to Gustard, Gustard to Hugo?

Thank you.

 

MM to Gus just has to transfer the data uncorrupted. Any reliable computer-quality USB cable will do, IMHO.

Gus to Hugo, by electrical SPDIF, wants to be a decent quality type (i.e. proper 75Ω connectors and well-shielded 75Ω cable). I use a Van Damme IIRC, but haven't compared others (no interest in exotic ones lubricated with snake oil).

Innocent Bystander posted:

SpecCled Trout posted:

So the Gustard is equally as valid as part of the signal chain for the Hugo as it is for the nDAC.

What interconnects are recommended - MM to Gustard, Gustard to Hugo?

Thank you.

 

MM to Gus just has to transfer the data uncorrupted. Any reliable computer-quality USB cable will do, IMHO.

Gus to Hugo, by electrical SPDIF, wants to be a decent quality type (i.e. proper 75Ω connectors and well-shielded 75Ω cable). I use a Van Damme IIRC, but haven't compared others (no interest in exotic ones lubricated with snake oil).

Do you have your MM in you listening room or another room? Do you have a NAS to store music or external HD connected to MM? Would you mind posting a pic of you setup? I currently have a Uniti 2 and am thinking of upgrading to SN2 and something other than s Naim streamer. I've used my MM to DAC to XS 2 on the past but only used iTunes with Amarra and controlled  it with Remote app. I'm thinking about Audirvana or Roon this time around. 

Yes, MM is in the listening room. It's fan is inaudible beyond about 3 feet when the room is silent.

System is MM/Audiv - Gustard - Hugo - power amp - speakers. I don't use a preamp, though I have an old one I can use if I want to play anything else (keyboards etc). Present power amp is a Bryston 4Bsst, but I also have my trusty Musical Fidelity P270 that some time I will do proper comparisons. Speakers are PMC EB1i. 

I don't have any system pics - nothing stunning as set up is in a state of flux aith recently changed amp, but if I remembervat the weekend I may take one.

I missed off - I do have a NAS, used as a backup device and for other things, not part of music play - all my music is on the MM (i have 2x 1 TB SSDs, but all my music - system says 12 hundred and something albums, though that's not accurate as some are duplicated awaiting tidy up - fits on one with plenty of space tomspare. All music files are flac, probably about 2/3rds  red book, the ramainder 24 bit and various resolutions. As well as Audirvana, I have Serviio on the MM, which is a free UPnP servvthat can serve music files to oth devices if desired ( hangover from an interin stage where I set up MM as a silent NAS before investigating Audirvana)

New MM with 16RAM  on order - arriving next week. Hugo coming tomorrow via ebay.

A mouse and a wireless adapter also bagged. Have got a RCA-DIN connector for Hugo-52 but need to get a USB cable for the MM-Hugo.

Hopefully happy days ahead.

Congrats Stewart, exciting times

Docv posted:

New MM with 16RAM  on order - arriving next week. Hugo coming tomorrow via ebay.

A mouse and a wireless adapter also bagged. Have got a RCA-DIN connector for Hugo-52 but need to get a USB cable for the MM-Hugo.

Hopefully happy days ahead.

Bear in mind that MM usb direct into Hugo can suffer from degradation due to electrical/rf interference. Without an isolator you might find thatbthe MM optical out is better, even though that is using the MM's soundcard which (with Audirvana) can be bypassed completely by using dedicated usb.

An isolator does sound like the right way to go - I will listen without one and then investigate further: USB regen and jitterbug as used by DayJay may be required...haven't looked into the cost yet but I will not spoil the ship for a ha'penny of tar as the saying goes!

Managed to get new stuff working last weekend before having to leave home again for a few days. The sound hadn't settled down at all but showed lots of promise -  52 SQ really does oscillate for a while after a fresh fire - up.

My main problem was the tiresomely slow load up of Audirvana favourites...my android devices show all of the albums instantaneously. The MM has 16mb of ram...any suggestions to remedy problem?

I had a 1:1 exchange with Audirvana support which was very helpful - I think that the issue is my bumpkin broadband service...superfast is arriving next year although I have heard that one before! My tablet does not have a problem loading up my Tidal Albums - would operating Audirvana via their App be of assistance?

Meanwhile I have been enjoying and experimenting with recently acquired MM/Hugo/Jitterbugs x2. I have ordered a USB Regen which will hopefully arrive soon.

One thing I haven't figured is how to switch to DSD256....my set up seems to be limited to 128 at present...any thoughts/advice.

I am also interested in hearing what others have settled on as their favourite settings in the audio filters menu of Audirvana.

Is forced upsampling necessarily best for SQ? What value is preferred for "Filter max length" etc.

DOCD,

DSD256 is only available if supported by the DAC (and connections between) - Hugo, for example, is limited to DSD128.

Below are screenshots of my Audirvana settings. xCORE is the Gustard U12 isolator/converter between the MM and Hugo. Most of the settings are the defaults for best quality. I haven't played around with upsampling, intending some time but not got around to.

regarding isolation, with the Hugo, the Gustard U12 does an excellent job, including RF filtering, and jitter isn't an issue because Hugo is asynchronous and reclocks, so no other inline electronics are needed.

Thank you IB

Great to have options but also good to settle on a combination of parameters and then sit back, relax and enjoy the music.

So far I have had some fab sessions and friends and family have commented positively on the system. There have also been times when the music has sounded too bright/harsh.

I am looking forward to adding the Regen as it could make a significant improvement. I am also beginning to build up my local resource of albums ripped via EAC - these make for an easier listening experience generally and I think SQ is better than streaming.