From Nap 250 to 500 for Ovator 600

Hi Roberto, I have with both of them in different set ups and rooms so I'm guessing a bit here. I have the idea that the 600 are a bit more "electronic" sounding compared to SL2 who might be best in class in sounding free and uncoloured. Personally I preferred 600 over SL2 but I also struggled with positioning with SL2, never had a true solid wall behind them. 

The NAP500 is an iron grip to the speaker, and 600 likes that a lot to my experience. Still a gave up on them a fighting a couple of years. They where (IMHO) fantastic at some stuff but not so on other. I do believe they could be a bargain in the right room though. 

//Jonas

It could of course be the case that the SL2 is the better speaker and that adding the 500 to the S600 will make the aspects you don't like even worse. It's definitely a case of try before you buy. It's also worth putting the 400s on the main system, as many people prefer the 400 to the 600.

On a personal level, having owned all three, my preference was SL2, S400, S600, in descending order. That is my house and my system of course. If there were aspects of the Ovator (either) that never quite matched the SL2, it was fluidity of timing and ease or naturalness of overall presentation.

Hi Jonas,

Perhaps It's not that they are more electronic.  The SL2s  have an awesome and clear mid/high more forward presentation.  The S600 are smoother have a smoother midrange but strangely, sometimes some voices are also a tad shrilling.  My idea is that the 500 could give 'em more grip on the mid bass and more clarity upward.

How do you compare the Titans with the 600 ? At the moment is the only alternative that would attract me outside the Naim world.

Regards

Roberto

Hi Nigel & Gary,

I' m afraid you're right.

My impression is that the 400s in my humble second system is a much easier louspeaker to live with.

The 600s was the first of the family, the following models impreved over them perhaps.

Regards

Roberto

Maybe the 600's need the better amp to better control them. Did you not try 400's? I'm finding my s400's are superb with a nap300dr. Much much better than when I was driving them with the Superuniti. 

I've always been more than happy with my 600s which are now on the end of a new 300DR. Usual comments about rooms apply. Mine sit along the short wall of a 26 by 36 foot room with little in their way. Usual case of personal preference I supplose. Positioning is hyper-critical though perhaps more so than other speakers I've owned over the years. Closest to this was perhaps the EPOS ES30 which is now long since gone anlong with the original company!

Drewy posted:

Maybe the 600's need the better amp to better control them. Did you not try 400's? I'm finding my s400's are superb with a nap300dr. Much much better than when I was driving them with the Superuniti. 

Sorry I just noticed you already appear to have s400's

HI Drewy,

Yes i have S400 in my second system in the attic, exchanging them would be a big hassle.

@ Ravenswood, 

my room is pretty smaller i further increased the distance from back wall from 35cm to 38 and 0,5cm of toe in but with  some records i still have the impression that something is missing.

Regards

Roberto

Hi Roberto, Titans is in another league and should be considering the price difference. I can't find anything that I don't like with them. Like DBL:s (my all time favourite speaker before Titans), but just better. 

//Jonas

rsch posted:

Hi Jonas,

Perhaps It's not that they are more electronic.  The SL2s  have an awesome and clear mid/high more forward presentation.  The S600 are smoother have a smoother midrange but strangely, sometimes some voices are also a tad shrilling.  My idea is that the 500 could give 'em more grip on the mid bass and more clarity upward.

How do you compare the Titans with the 600 ? At the moment is the only alternative that would attract me outside the Naim world.

Regards

Roberto

Have you tried Focal speakers?, they are quite excellent will outstanding midrange and obviously have a synergy with Naim equipment.

rsch posted:

Hi Jonas,

Perhaps It's not that they are more electronic.  The SL2s  have an awesome and clear mid/high more forward presentation.  The S600 are smoother have a smoother midrange but strangely, sometimes some voices are also a tad shrilling.  My idea is that the 500 could give 'em more grip on the mid bass and more clarity upward.

How do you compare the Titans with the 600 ? At the moment is the only alternative that would attract me outside the Naim world.

Regards

Roberto

rsch, you might be on to something, the gentleman powering his 600's with a 300 appears to enjoy them very much, the 800's may be another beast, but I know one gentleman who also enjoys his 600's, but he's driving them with an S1 and active 300's.

Perhaps a 552/Snaxo 262 can transform them into a musical beast!

Bet they would perform admirably with a pair of 250 DR's!

Just a thought!

Allante93!

Quote from The Founder and Speaker Designer of  Vivid Audio.

Sterephile Speaker of the Year Vivid GTA 3  40K

Laurence Dickie: "I have always been a keen advocate of the active approach to loudspeaker design, believing that the direct connection between amplifier and voice coil offers the purest route and that the precision and linearity of active electronics give a clear advantage over passive alternatives. However for pragmatic reasons we felt it unwise to go to market with only active speakers. An important part of the design phase of the first Vivid Audio products was a re-evaluation of passive crossover design. It has to be said that the use of computer-aided circuit analysis has really changed the game. The accuracy possible to meet target responses while presenting a safe load is quite remarkable. This coupled with drivers which present constant impedances across a wide range of drive levels, non-polar film dielectric capacitors and air-cored inductors has permitted us to create passive designs which really challenge the active alternatives.”

Perhaps this is why the Ovators are not being produced anymore!  I thought Focal would pick up the ball, Wrong!!!

Just some more Thoughts! 

Allante93! 

S600 are fantastic speakers ! I own them since several years now and they purposed me many faces of what music can be. They can be very sensible to the room (wall behind as well and so on). You might take time to move them few centimeters right or left, away or closer to the wall... you should really improve the result and move to the presentation you prefer. But it takes time. I paired them with 250 and now 250 DR. The last is much more directive and Ovators appreciate. A friend of mine ended a system with 552 and 500. 500 will perform better than a 250 for sure but i am not sure you will get what you are looking for. The "DR" route seems for me more effective for you and also cheaper For the rest of the money, you can also think about 1 or 2 SL cable, they fit so well with DR and you will get a much more balanced system.

Cheers

Hi All,

Thanks for your replies,

@ Jonas,  Of course price wise Titans reside in another league but i'd also be curious to know if  you find them more room friendly than 600s

@ Paul Downs, No I haven't. Which Series do you mean ? Sopra or Utopia ? as far as i know there are not Naim dealers selling Focal yet 

@ Allante, yes for sure  with active operation there is much more room for tweaking. Italian Vivid distributor is  friend of mine, in fact prior of my Ovator purchase, he was pushing me toward a couple of B1s. The Giya series is an attractive concept for design & engeneering but a 4 ways speaker with woofers on the side, i guess it needs a huge room to work, oh! and are very very expensive.

@ Ikoun,  a couple of days ago i further increased the distance from back wall to 38 cm and this has mitigated the  mid bass boldness a touch perhaps. I' m aware that DR upgrade & SL would be a panacea but the i have found a  at a steal price, not DR but who cares  i see it like a definitive and unique opportunity.

Regards

Roberto

I would try and hear them actively driven. If you decide you prefer that type of presentation (I do) then 3x 250's or 2x 300's may be a better bet than 1x 500.

@ Roberto, Titans almost seems "room-independent", just plug and play (have heard them in several different rooms. 40-45 cm from back wall tends to bet he right place. 

//Jonas

heihei posted:

I would try and hear them actively driven. If you decide you prefer that type of presentation (I do) then 3x 250's or 2x 300's may be a better bet than 1x 500.

May be, but it means a much more complicated setup, another Fraim stack and so on.

Regards

Roberto

Jonas Olofsson posted:

@ Roberto, Titans almost seems "room-independent", just plug and play (have heard them in several different rooms. 40-45 cm from back wall tends to bet he right place. 

 

//Jonas

Thank you,  i was guessing that

Regards

Roberto

heihei posted:

I would try and hear them actively driven. If you decide you prefer that type of presentation (I do) then 3x 250's or 2x 300's may be a better bet than 1x 500.

+1 Agreed!!!

Furthermore, looked at your profile, and I'm quite sure Active has crossed your mind, more than once.

Also, there's been a lot of fuss about the new Dred Amps.

Hence, active would be twofold, Upgrade in electronics, and Speakers, since the crossover is now out of the equation. So 3 stack Fraim, check!

CD555/555PS--+552DR--+Snaxo/SCDR--+3 x 250DR--+ 600's--+Your Ears

Just another thought!

(9 Black Boxes Of Joy)!

Allante93!

HI Allante,

I' m well aware of the advantges of activation, getting rid of the passive x over means more clarity, speed and the opportunity to fine tune bass and high frequencies. On the other hand setting up the system is much more complicated and requires a very competent dealer assistance and last but not least the additional cables, tiers and so on.

Specifically with my system if i believe at an optimal stacking of components, i' d  leave the source stack (CD 555/552) untouched, in the middle i still have room for a possible 2nd 555psu and a 300 or 500psu. On the far right stack where the 250 reside now, i have an extended level, ideal for a 500 head, a free space on the base and another one atop of it  but no more.

I also remember the experience of a fellow forumee who used active SL2 with 2x 300 S.Cap Snaxo, when he eventually swapped them for a single 500 his impressions seemed totally positive.

Regards

Roberto

rsch posted:

HI Allante,

On the other hand setting up the system is much more complicated and requires a very competent dealer assistance and last but not least the additional cables, tiers and so on.

Regards

Roberto

I understand your position, the cost factor, not to mention the complications in wiring and set-up.

This is why very few take the Active Path, even though the rewards are great.

So, if you decide to keep 600's, there only a few options available.

A. Increase Power 300DR/500DR

B. SL technologies

C. Treat the Room & Repositioning

I might be wrong, but I think you're leaning towards option A, the 500DR, not cheap!

Of course, option C, cost effective.

 And eventually the SL Full Loom!

As far as changing Speakers, Ovators 800's, Titans, Vivid GTA 3's,  all of which may be in another league, but should be, considering what they cost! 

Meanwhile enjoy your Music, the Why!

CD555/555PS--+552DR--+250.2--+600's

Can't be that Bad!

Allante93!

I never felt confident to use 3*500, with even more spent on X-over etc, for a speaker costing almost a tenth on that...(with Fraims, cables etc).

Better sounding? Surely, but money best spent for best sound? Not that sure but I'm guessing here of course, don't take my word for it. 

//Jonas

I think i 'll follow A + C path, option B will be eventually at the end 800 & Giya 3 are not an option  either for cost & space constraints i will definetely keep the 600 and i 'll eventually surrender to move the system in a bigger room.

Early this morning i played 1, 2 tracks of last P.Floyd vin. reissues through Rega P3/ XS / 400, the music flowed so nicely.

Regards

Roberto

Don't forget your S-600's will take a while to run in,particularly the BMR.  I have had mine on a 250 now for 2 months and they are still changing for the better.  Stepping up the power amp will make a difference, but I'd be inclined to check that after some more run in.

Hope you get to hear them singing, impressive speakers in my room.

Regards

Hutch