HiLine; a heretic awaits his pyre

I have no intentions of auditioning any cables until I have all the black boxes I want. Think about it, the prices are very high for what you get and surely everyone must agree with that. Even if they do make a difference I'm not keen on spending that amount of cash.

Adam Meredith posted:

Stand back gentlemen - I'm a philosophy graduate ...

Excellent ... you're not a Hegel man then?

"Never ask a barber if you need a haircut" I struggle with the mentality that can charge the equivalent of a second hand car for a piece of wire, however "special" the wire is! I allow that the boxes are worthy of such prices because they are complex designs. Surely we are guilty /bamboozled into thinking that perceived gains are directly proportional to the outlay, vastly ludicrously expensive MUST therefore confer some gain, Me I just get my interconnects made up using high quality components by a guy who charges a fraction of the RRP. Result marital harmony AND musical harmony

(sound and electronics engineer  ex BBC)

Will Dias posted:

Mattnbarns posted:

Is there anybody on this forum (other than HH) who is not an Engineer?  Me too (an Engineer that is),

One thing I find interesting in all this (and I have no answers) is why some people hear differences and others don't.  Of course those that do are certain it is because there is a difference and attribute this to the 'thing' they feel has brought about the change.  They often declare that those that don't hear a difference or, god forbid, try to bring scientific measurement into the argument are closed minded.

Matt (sadly the Barns part is no longer with us)

Hi Matt. 

To be fair to HH, I think he was replying to someone who refused to try on engineering grounds. 

Regards, Will

Absolutely. It's the use of 'I'm an engineer' as a way of saying that you have special knowledge and your view is especially significant that I object to. All this stuff is subjective and everyone's view is equally valid, whether they are an engineer or not. 

As to whether the posh cables are worth it is something else entirely. You either pay or you don't. 

robmcwhinnie posted:

"Never ask a barber if you need a haircut" I struggle with the mentality that can charge the equivalent of a second hand car for a piece of wire, however "special" the wire is! I allow that the boxes are worthy of such prices because they are complex designs. Surely we are guilty /bamboozled into thinking that perceived gains are directly proportional to the outlay, vastly ludicrously expensive MUST therefore confer some gain, Me I just get my interconnects made up using high quality components by a guy who charges a fraction of the RRP. Result marital harmony AND musical harmony

A bit skeptical at first but I decided to go the DIY route for my ICs. Couldn't be happier. I sold of my expensive ICs and pocketed the change. The ''recipe'' was concocted by a Japanese audio engineer and manufacturer and was tried by dozens of audiophiles with systems I could never afford. They all came to the same conclusion - these cables sound right. Just basic copper wire and rather cheapish copper RCAs. Both brands have been around for ages and used in recording studios. I actually tried swapping the cheapish connectors for some much(20x) pricier ETI (Eichmann) thinking surely it would be an improvement - it wasn't. All they did was make the sound thinner.

'Poor Barns - looks like a beautiful K9'

He was and he is sorely missed. Thanks for the thought,

Bob the Builder posted:

Well I've got a C.S.E. in woodwork and I without a doubt heard a difference when I changed my Naca4 to 5 and again  when I changed my CA interconnects for Chord Chrysalis.                                                                                                           

Well, Bob, I'll see your CSE in woodwork and raise you a GCSE in metalwork! Probably explains why I can hear an improvement in my system when I demoed an SL interconnect 

Mike

'Absolutely. It's the use of 'I'm an engineer' as a way of saying that you have special knowledge and your view is especially significant that I object to. All this stuff is subjective and everyone's view is equally valid, whether they are an engineer or not. '

I get your point, (and I really wasn't trying to have a dig at you or anybody else) but I do find it interesting when people make claims about whether or not they can hear a difference as to whether that difference is real (and therefore measurable) or psychological (i.e. real to the observer but not 'real' in a measurable sense).  People who 'hear' the change sometimes appear unwilling to accept that the perceived change just might be their personal perception.  It doesn't make it any less real to them or mean that their choices are somehow invalid, not does it make them in any way misguided or anything daft like that.  I have no answers or insights here merely questions that I find interesting....

By the way, as an Engineer I do have special knowledge but its mine and I will keep it secret.  Its our code.

Matt

Mattnbarns posted:

'Poor Barns - looks like a beautiful K9'

He was and he is sorely missed. Thanks for the thought,

As a fellow dog lover my thoughts are with you, Matt

Mike

Thank you.  He had a good active life and 11 is not a bad age for a Shepherd.  Trouble is what ever the size of the dog the size of the hole they leave behind is very difficult to come to terms with.

Yes. Very much agree with that sentiment, Matt.  11 years is good for a big dog but I know that doesn't ease the hurt when you lose them.

Fantastic lift from adding Ice Age and AV Options power cables to my modest boxes. Less than $100 each cable. imo Naim somewhat strangle their gear with the Tibia. Probably not on purpose, and it is a good cable for being generic, but it's also a good strategy, thereby forcing one to move up in boxes vs an inexpensive cable change. Not to say their isn't value going up the chain, of course there is, but if one feels Or needs to be) stuck where they're at, then a third party power cable change might be in order (just stay way from the silly ones). 

 I am an engineer, originally an aero engineer and used to work on Concorde.  And I have a dog, a mini schnauzer called Sprocket.

https://drive.google.com/file/...KOQ/view?usp=sharing

I love playing with cables, and fully appreciate just how complex sounds are, and how complex we humans can be.  Sprocket, on the other hand, doesn't but he loves sleeping in the sweet spot between my speakers.

Last week I've got a CDI. It came with the standard grey interconnect. The sound was very good, but a Hiline raised the bar. Not significantly, but enough to make us leave the Hiline.

ursus262 posted:

I love playing with cables, and fully appreciate just how complex sounds are, and how complex we humans can be.  Sprocket, on the other hand, doesn't but he loves sleeping in the sweet spot between my speakers.

My cats are more interested in the potential of my speakers as places to sit upon and survey their domain (see my avatar). But it is true that the largest cat likes to sleep on my chair.

best

David

Well I love the powerlines but the hiline is frankly a pain in the proverbial.   Dogs are good, cats - evil, cunning, clever sods - they're designed like that.

Regards,

Lindsay

The Strat (Fender) posted:

Well I love the powerlines but the hiline is frankly a pain in the proverbial.   Dogs are good, cats - evil, cunning, clever sods - they're designed like that.

Regards,

Lindsay

Dogs think we are gods because we do everything for them. Cats think they are gods because we do everything for them.

I along with two of my aquaintances reverted from the HiLine to the older 'lavender' interconnect cables for purely sonic reasons. Which may have as much to do with matters of taste rather than absolute superiority. I would agree that the biggest difference between them is the price, although the HL has a richer, fuller and 'fatter' bottom end that is less tuneful to my ears. 

I wonder what the lavender would sound like 'shotgunned'? Hmmmmm..

Ditto Ron. 

I changed from the lavender to the HiLine  in my 5si system into Credos after a week home trial.

Went with it, glad I did, I can turn system up to higher levels than before and there is more balls with ease in the sound than there was with the Lavender cable.

I can definitely hear a lot deeper into the music and listen for much longer periods, more space going on making it easier for me to really connect with the music. 

I've had no trouble with the HiLine, no plugs breaking or anything.

Each to their own I guess but it has been worth it for me getting one.

Steve

Hungryhalibut posted:

Absolutely. It's the use of 'I'm an engineer' as a way of saying that you have special knowledge and your view is especially significant that I object to. All this stuff is subjective and everyone's view is equally valid, whether they are an engineer or not. 

As to whether the posh cables are worth it is something else entirely. You either pay or you don't. 

 

HH I'm an ex-engineer; does that mean some people should think my opinion's no longer significant? 

Ron Toolsie posted:

I along with two of my aquaintances reverted from the HiLine to the older 'lavender' interconnect cables for purely sonic reasons. Which may have as much to do with matters of taste rather than absolute superiority. I would agree that the biggest difference between them is the price, although the HL has a richer, fuller and 'fatter' bottom end that is less tuneful to my ears. 

I wonder what the lavender would sound like 'shotgunned'? Hmmmmm..

Don't know about the bottom end, but would probably produce some High's you won't forget!!!! Hmmmmmmm!!!!

Iconoclast posted:

robmcwhinnie posted:

"Never ask a barber if you need a haircut" I struggle with the mentality that can charge the equivalent of a second hand car for a piece of wire, however "special" the wire is! I allow that the boxes are worthy of such prices because they are complex designs. Surely we are guilty /bamboozled into thinking that perceived gains are directly proportional to the outlay, vastly ludicrously expensive MUST therefore confer some gain, Me I just get my interconnects made up using high quality components by a guy who charges a fraction of the RRP. Result marital harmony AND musical harmony

A bit skeptical at first but I decided to go the DIY route for my ICs. Couldn't be happier. I sold of my expensive ICs and pocketed the change. The ''recipe'' was concocted by a Japanese audio engineer and manufacturer and was tried by dozens of audiophiles with systems I could never afford. They all came to the same conclusion - these cables sound right. Just basic copper wire and rather cheapish copper RCAs. Both brands have been around for ages and used in recording studios. I actually tried swapping the cheapish connectors for some much(20x) pricier ETI (Eichmann) thinking surely it would be an improvement - it wasn't. All they did was make the sound thinner.

I did a similar thing (Mogami W2534 + Preh DINs, wired as pseudo-balanced).  A very significant improvement.

I picked the pseudo-balanced arrangement after a significant amount of circuit modelling.  I also built a simple unbalanced cable so I could test both, and the pseudo-balanced configuration did sound better (not a massive difference between the two configurations with similar Mogami cables, but I definitely stayed with the pseudo-balanced one).

Huge posted:

Iconoclast posted:

robmcwhinnie posted:

"Never ask a barber if you need a haircut" I struggle with the mentality that can charge the equivalent of a second hand car for a piece of wire, however "special" the wire is! I allow that the boxes are worthy of such prices because they are complex designs. Surely we are guilty /bamboozled into thinking that perceived gains are directly proportional to the outlay, vastly ludicrously expensive MUST therefore confer some gain, Me I just get my interconnects made up using high quality components by a guy who charges a fraction of the RRP. Result marital harmony AND musical harmony

A bit skeptical at first but I decided to go the DIY route for my ICs. Couldn't be happier. I sold of my expensive ICs and pocketed the change. The ''recipe'' was concocted by a Japanese audio engineer and manufacturer and was tried by dozens of audiophiles with systems I could never afford. They all came to the same conclusion - these cables sound right. Just basic copper wire and rather cheapish copper RCAs. Both brands have been around for ages and used in recording studios. I actually tried swapping the cheapish connectors for some much(20x) pricier ETI (Eichmann) thinking surely it would be an improvement - it wasn't. All they did was make the sound thinner.

I did a similar thing (Mogami W2534 + Preh DINs, wired as pseudo-balanced).  A very significant improvement.

I picked the pseudo-balanced arrangement after a significant amount of circuit modelling.  I also built a simple unbalanced cable so I could test both, and the pseudo-balanced configuration did sound better (not a massive difference between the two configurations with similar Mogami cables, but I definitely stayed with the pseudo-balanced one).

The W2534 are labeled as microphone cable just as the vintage Belden 8402 that I used in mine. The connectors are Switchcraft SWC-3502A(AU) RCAs.

While I won't claim these are better than Super Luminas I will say that they are equal or better than brands that I've tried such as Cardas, Acoustic Zen and Audioquest costing substantially more. For me this was proof that as far as cables are concerned I didn't need to spend a disproportionate amount of money to get decent sound.

If had bags of money I wouldn't be as concerned about price and would probably end up owning uber expensive cables. But then again I'd probably own a uber expensive everything.