Mystery with nDAC after 300DR: track at 24bit 196kHz sounds as white noise until compressed to 96kHz

Maybe try playing from a USB key to eliminate a partly faulty cable?

Good idea, I will try that.  Funny though, because I have both versions saved and every music is great, apart from 196kHz.

Just tried it and 196kHz DOES work without white noise.

So the conclusion must be cable is now faulty with 196kHz... Alone?

Weird.

196kHz? Are you sure this shouldn't be 192kHz?

I don't see how the analogue part of your system can possibly be to blame here. When swapping boxes, could you have inadvertently nuged, moved or damaged your digital interconnect. I notice from your other thread that you use an optical connection: their ability to play 192 files is borderline, and often they are spec'd at 96 maximum. Maybe you could test a different optical cable, or try a USB or electrical SPDIF cable as a test.

Hi Chrissu, that sounds very plausible - I didn't know optical was borderline at 192kHz.

I'll see if I can get a coaxial version (presently it plugs into a port the size of headphone port, then goes into an optical input on the nDAC)

Maybe it's just the recording and your system is now revealing it??

Some hi res downloads cause White Noise on my NAT01 if I am playing it through the HDX/DAC. I have a HDX/NDAC/XPS2, NAT01, Phonosophie into 552, so o when playing and the HiRes light comes on the DAC if I flip across to the NAT01 the signal is swamped a bit by white noise. Any explanation?

The system is fully serviced and set up correctly. Regards Devraj

Possibly, but this is like you can hear the songs, but white noise overwhelms it like an aircraft taking off muffling conversation.  I think ChrisSu gave the answer: optical is temperamenal with anything over 96kHz.

I may look for a headphone jack to RCA coaxial.  No high quality manufacturer does this though!  They only give jack to 2 phono, not just one i.e. digital.

Ok so all good when playing from USB so maybe problem with SPDIF cable or whatever is driving this.  Maybe even a disk starting to go faulty that can't supply the higher data transfer rates? 

Is that the only 192kHz recording that you have? Do you have another one to try?

If you run an optical toslink it's restricted by design to 96kHz.

Amp has nothing to do with white noises....

Yes, I have another 192kHz album and that ALSO has overwhelming white noise.  The comression to 96kHz made the white noise go.

So it ms be the optical nterconnect (headphone jack to optical input), which cost me a tenner.

Would you agree that is the most likely hypothesis?

Is there a recommended headphone jack to optical digital cable?  Or an audiophile headphone jack to coaxial (one wire not two), as I read on other forum coaxial is better than optical?

Optical can be marginal at greater than 24/96 so yes the cable is likely the issue.

Especially if it's a standard TOSLink plus adaptor rather than true mini-TOSLink to TOSLink.

I'm not sure what the symptoms would be if the cable can't handle 192, I've heard others report it stuttering - but I've no idea if the white noise you mention would be a result? Maybe your dealer would be able to help you find a suitable cable. You appear to have spent quite a bit of cash on some nice Naim boxes, so I'm sure they would be able to help - maybe lend you a demo Toslink cable to try out.

Combined 3.5mm headphone/optical sockets do not, as far as I know, support coaxial SPDIF. 

Coldplay? Just listen to an MP3 (if you must) 

I seem to remember SPDIF frames have a parity bit, so of there is a corruption it should blank the frame or something similar. I would try an electrical SPDIF cable just to make sure there is not something untoward in the NDAC.

Simon

Wait a minute. What 192khz capable player only has a headphone jack output for digital signals? I looked. The A&K. Oh well.

Here's the answer!  It is optical being the problem with 192kHz, as mentioned by ChrisSu.  I replaced the cheap (£10) optical cable with a £60 Optichord from the Chord Company, and...

Well, 192kHz tracks play with noticeably less white noise than the cheaper cable.  There still is white noise though, but considerably less.  Shame I can't get a coaxial!!

Doesn't sound like a good solution as it's still not working correctly. You could always stick to 24/96 as maximum quality or just use a USB stick into the naim DAC when playing 192 files. Not a lot of decent 192 material around and is it really that much better (if at all) over 24/96 or even well mastered Red Book ( although anything will be better due to the extra noise your getting playing 192 files TBH...)

I agree with you, because once 24 bit is reached, 192 kHz and 96 kHz are indistinguishable.  Well mastered Red Book is certainly good, but the delicacy with 24 bit is almost always noticeable, and worthwhile.

Consciousmess posted:

I agree with you, because once 24 bit is reached, 192 kHz and 96 kHz are indistinguishable.  Well mastered Red Book is certainly good, but the delicacy with 24 bit is almost always noticeable, and worthwhile.

 

I think you are running into a danger of post-rationalising a problem and accepting it as a norm.

There is a difference in going from 44.1 kHz > 96 kHZ > 192 kHz (and all other commonly used 'steps'). On a revealing system it will show. Of course adding the extra 8 bits (going from 16 to 24 bits) is one of the main benefits.

Adam

I suppose a portable player like yours, albeit a very expensive one, wasn't really intended as a transport for a HiFi system. You've got some pretty swanky Naim boxes there, maybe they need something better matched to them? Given that you already have a 555 PS, you could swap the DAC for an NDS - then you'd really be cooking on gas...

ChrisSU posted:

I suppose a portable player like yours, albeit a very expensive one, wasn't really intended as a transport for a HiFi system. You've got some pretty swanky Naim boxes there, maybe they need something better matched to them? Given that you already have a 555 PS, you could swap the DAC for an NDS - then you'd really be cooking on gas...

I agree. When I tried, out of curiosity, my A & K Jr as a source with my SU, the results were not impressive. I appreciate its not in the same league as the 240, but I don't believe any portable was truly designed as a source for high end hifi.

Higher the bit rate the better it sounds on my system.  I can even pick it blind ( for those that are skeptical, just focus on the high frequencies)

Unfortunately in my system i get a digital mini fart about 5 minutes in.  Only for a moment and only the once per album mind you, but it always happens on anything over 44.1 khz on my nDAC.   Just as well i have so few high bit rate recordings.

ChrisSU posted:

I suppose a portable player like yours, albeit a very expensive one, wasn't really intended as a transport for a HiFi system. You've got some pretty swanky Naim boxes there, maybe they need something better matched to them? Given that you already have a 555 PS, you could swap the DAC for an NDS - then you'd really be cooking on gas...

Good point - I can see two optioins:

1. Sell nDAC and get NDS
2. Add NDX, use DC-1 to feed nDAC and put 555PS on the nDAC

Both will sound superb, although a bit different. To be honest I'm not sure which one I'd prefer. Certainly it's easier to find a good pre-loved NDX in a top nick.

Adam

Consciousmess posted:

I agree with you, because once 24 bit is reached, 192 kHz and 96 kHz are indistinguishable.  Well mastered Red Book is certainly good, but the delicacy with 24 bit is almost always noticeable, and worthwhile.

 

I don't agree that the difference between 192 and 96 are indistinguishable - of course the quality of the recording matters most but the best 192, just like the best DSD, to my ears and on my system are better than the best 96