Which CD Player for Nait 5SI

I did hear a CD5i vs a Rega Isis into a 282/250 one time and thought the Isis won the match, as one might expect.  Have not heard the Apollo.  

I would ignore this information, in your case, unless you plan to ascend to dizzying heights in the near future.  Synergy trumps all, in my exp.

Nick

I don't understand  the need hold on to redbook cds, audiophiles have never had it so good at the moment with huge digital storage and studio quality music files and the big revival of vinyl  records.

Most modern, modestly priced DACs can manage 24bit 192khz audio files.

IMO Cds should be put away alongside your old cassette tapes and minidiscs

eazyryder posted:

I don't understand  the need hold on to redbook cds, audiophiles have never had it so good at the moment with huge digital storage and studio quality music files and the big revival of vinyl  records.

Most modern, modestly priced DACs can manage 24bit 192khz audio files.

IMO Cds should be put away alongside your old cassette tapes and minidiscs

The attraction of CDs is the same as three quarters of the attraction of vinyl - to have something physical you can hold and sort through, to have a set of picture you can look at (and not just a thumbnail), finally nostalgia.  The one thing it doesn't have which vinyl has in spades, is that old coloured style of sound presentation, which some people so strongly prefer.

Modern mid priced DACs may be able to render 24/192, but their analogue sections, DACs and the electronic implementation of those DACs still aren't any where near as good as those in more expensive units.  Bits are bits only applies to digital storage and transmission, not to the DAC system as a whole.

If the OP has a streamer and still wants a CD player, he already knows about steaming (and presumably that he can rip CDs) so why not?
It's his money and his choice.  So in terms of analogy:

“I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.”  (Evelyn Beatrice Hall writing as S. G. Tallentyre).

eazyryder posted:

I don't understand  the need hold on to redbook cds, audiophiles have never had it so good at the moment with huge digital storage and studio quality music files and the big revival of vinyl  records.

Most modern, modestly priced DACs can manage 24bit 192khz audio files.

IMO Cds should be put away alongside your old cassette tapes and minidiscs

And i still can't understand why you won't accept someones choice, and insist on bleating on about the same old thing.

eazyryder posted:

I don't understand  the need hold on to redbook cds, audiophiles have never had it so good at the moment with huge digital storage and studio quality music files and the big revival of vinyl  records.

Most modern, modestly priced DACs can manage 24bit 192khz audio files.

IMO Cds should be put away alongside your old cassette tapes and minidiscs

Audiophiles have never had it so good.... CD's are so bloody cheap! Cheaper than their equivalent download.

James L posted:

Audiophiles have never had it so good.... CD's are so bloody cheap! Cheaper than their equivalent download.

Yes, I seriously don't understand that.
PITA, because than I have to do the work of ripping and storing the CD rather than just transferring the data to the NAS.

In fact one of the reasons i started collecting cds was the price... they are so cheap right now... and they are getting even cheaper.

I can sell the Pioneer and the cd 3.5... this way let's say i'll get 500 euros or even 600 tops. Then i have to find a NDX or a ND5 XS (a used one maybe) . This could be an alternative... 

But then a doubt arises.... is the NCD5 XS really better than a CD 5Si sonically?

I think one thing that we can tell for sure is that the NDX is superior to the CD 5SI (The price tags are obivious). 

Adding to what Huge said regarding physicality, some folks (myself included) are content to pick an album from the shelf and listen to it in its entirety. No need to assemble playlists or interact with a touch device during listening. And yeah, there's no guarantee a stand alone DAC necessarily trumps a quality CDP.

nsajuve posted:

I can sell the Pioneer and the cd 3.5... this way let's say i'll get 500 euros or even 600 tops. Then i have to find a NDX or a ND5 XS (a used one maybe) . This could be an alternative... 

But then a doubt arises.... is the NCD5 XS really better than a CD 5Si sonically?

I think one thing that we can tell for sure is that the NDX is superior to the CD 5SI (The price tags are obivious). 

To answer the question... Yes.  I've heard both and I now have a ND5 XS.

Huge posted:

nsajuve posted:

I can sell the Pioneer and the cd 3.5... this way let's say i'll get 500 euros or even 600 tops. Then i have to find a NDX or a ND5 XS (a used one maybe) . This could be an alternative... 

But then a doubt arises.... is the NCD5 XS really better than a CD 5Si sonically?

I think one thing that we can tell for sure is that the NDX is superior to the CD 5SI (The price tags are obivious). 

To answer the question... Yes.  I've heard both and I now have a ND5 XS.

Good... at least we have someone who has tried both systems. Thank you.

I've also heard one against a CD 3.  That was closer, but the ND5 had more resolution, and presented 'delicate' music a lot better.  Personally I'd say that the ND5 still won by a significant margin.

(OK, now wait for the brickbats...)

My original question way back up the thread was just to understand the OP's need for a replacement CD player given there was a Network player already in the system. From another thread, the OP had mentioned limited funds so my thought was better to spend more on a single primary source than spread it across two duplicated function sources. I know which side of the fence i sit on with regards CD or HD but understand everyone has different priorities, needs etc...

Anyway good luck nsajuve on whichever solution you choose 

James

joerand posted:

Adding to what Huge said regarding physicality, some folks (myself included) are content to pick an album from the shelf and listen to it in its entirety. No need to assemble playlists or interact with a touch device during listening. And yeah, there's no guarantee a stand alone DAC necessarily trumps a quality CDP.

To listen to a whole album on a Naim streamer you don't need to manually assemble a play list (the device can do that automatically for a whole album); just tap the first track on the album and everything happens automatically, just like pressing <Play> on a CDP!

You also don't have to do anything with the touch device during listening (although if you wish to you can use it like the front panel controls of a CDP and even change volume).

The only time you need the touch device is to select the next album (but even that can be done with the IR remote or with the front panel controls).

joerand posted:

Adding to what Huge said regarding physicality, some folks (myself included) are content to pick an album from the shelf and listen to it in its entirety. No need to assemble playlists or interact with a touch device during listening. And yeah, there's no guarantee a stand alone DAC necessarily trumps a quality CDP.

I agree with you Randy but I am a streamer 95% of the time. I choose an album from my virtual library and sit back and listen to it in its entirety too. When I first got into streaming I treated it rather like  a jukebox at times, jumping from track to track and album to album wherever the musical whim led me. After those initial few months I returned to my previous ways i.e. one album at a time all the way through. Although I may have others waiting in a playlist reminding me to play them later. It's still fun to play CDs which I do for those that are SHM, Gold or exotic in production that does not transfer when ripping...

james n posted:

My original question way back up the thread was just to understand the OP's need for a replacement CD player given there was a Network player already in the system. From another thread, the OP had mentioned limited funds so my thought was better to spend more on a single primary source than spread it across two duplicated function sources. I know which side of the fence i sit on with regards CD or HD but understand everyone has different priorities, needs etc...

Anyway good luck nsajuve on whichever solution you choose 

James

 

You're right James... i don't have an unlimited budget... and my experience as a listener and as an audiophile is not worth spending too much money (for the time being) on a single equipment. 

I can sell the Pioneer... but it will be a waste of money since i've used it maybe 10 times and i bought it new for 500 euros... and i have to sell it somewhere around 300. Then i have to sell the cd ( which is on my agenda anyway ) for let's say 250 euros ...

So the total money i'll get would be something around 500 euros more or less. Then i have to spend an additional 1000 euros an buy me a network streamer.. 

Actually by doing this i'll spend less money... 

nsajuve posted:

In fact one of the reasons i started collecting cds was the price... they are so cheap right now... and they are getting even cheaper.

I can sell the Pioneer and the cd 3.5... this way let's say i'll get 500 euros or even 600 tops. Then i have to find a NDX or a ND5 XS (a used one maybe) . This could be an alternative... 

But then a doubt arises.... is the NCD5 XS really better than a CD 5Si sonically? 

I can't comment specifically re the CD5Si as I haven't compared, however changing to the ND5XS Is exactly the step I took when my last CD player was dying. I found that the ND5XS was a pretty close match sound-wise to my CD player (Shearne Audio Phase 7), so I bought an ex demo one and proceeded to rip, happy with SQ and very content that I no longer needed to expect deterioration due to mechanical wear in 10 years' time (I'd never buy a used CD player for that reason).

But that did not turn out to be the best solution! A somewhat circuitous process followed: I was persuaded to add an XP5XS power supply after a year - even better SQ, but only slightly (rather poor VFM), however it wasn't long before I discovered the dramatic improvement in SQ that the Hugo could bring, and swapped the XP5XS for a Hugo, using the ND5XS just as renderer: definitely beneficial. (As an aside, there have been plenty of favourable comparisons on these forums  of Hugo used thus with NDX as well)

Meanwhile I had bought a cheap NAS (Zyxel NSA325), which whilst it did the job, turned out to be unpleasantly noisy, and getting worse with time. In considering a silent NAS, and looking at alternatives and other options, I ended up buying a used Mac Mini at similar price to base QNAP, and added SSDs. That platform allowed me to try something different as well as functioning as a NAS, and the change continued...

2 years after getting the ND5XS my system became instead: Mac Mini/Audirvana through Gustard U12 usb/spdif isolator/convertor into Hugo. All for about the same as I originally paid for the ND5XS + would have paid for a QNAP NAS, but with significantly better SQ, and a virtually silent music store that doesn't need to move anything across the network to play music (though can still serve music files across the network if wanted for some other player).

i just wish I had known this before starting out, as inevitably there have been losses selling the XP5XS and ND5XS along the way, however it has been an interesting time. Meanwhile one possible alternative to investigate based only on recently received wisdom is Melco in place of MM/Audiv/Gustard.

joerand posted:

Adding to what Huge said regarding physicality, some folks (myself included) are content to pick an album from the shelf and listen to it in its entirety. No need to assemble playlists or interact with a touch device during listening. And yeah, there's no guarantee a stand alone DAC necessarily trumps a quality CDP.

I've been streaming for coming up to three years, and havent created a single playlist (I don't really get the purpose!). I just pick an album, and play.

The practical differences between streaming and physical CDs is that with the latter I had to go find the one I wanted and physically insert it, whilebrowsing consisted of squinting at the case spines along numerous shelves, occasionally pulling one out. Now I don't have to budge from where I am, and as well as browsing by skimming alphabetically, I can arrange to see multiple thumbnails on screen if I want, I can search by any part of artist or album name, and potentially I can sort by various other attributes (though my collection has insufficiently complete metadata so I don't). But yes, album artwork requires more effort to pull up on a screen, and for operas I've retained the CDs accessibly with the libretto so I can access that easily to follow if I want.

With both  the ND5XS I had, and now Audirvana,  there is a play queue, which is populated automatically when I select an album. I do sometimes use it to add another album to play after the present one, and very occasionally if I have been in the mood for individual pieces I have queued a few while something has already been playing. And potentially, e.g if there's one thing on an album I don't want to listen to, I can go in and delete an individualt track from the queue. All these are useful bonuses, not something neede to faff around with when playing music if you don't want to.

At the end of the day I thought purchasing expensive hi fi was all about trying to replay recorded music audio at its highest quality possible (studio quality) as the recording artist intended, this simply cant be done with CD and I am personally happy to move forward when it comes to sound quality and getting the best from my somewhat expensive hi fi system.

I am just glad to see the dreaded MP3 finally loose favour with the masses.

There where probably some audiophiles upset at having to put away their cherished cassette tapes (I still have boxes full in the attic ).

If you haven't yet bought one, out of the options you've listed my first choice would be a used CD5XS, followed by the CD5si. 

As you undoubtedly know, there are a lot of positives to staying in the Naim range. 

Bob Edwards posted:

If you haven't yet bought one, out of the options you've listed my first choice would be a used CD5XS, followed by the CD5si. 

As you undoubtedly know, there are a lot of positives to staying in the Naim range. 

And they are? ( in the context of streaming, requiring music store, renderer and DAC, whether or not some parts are combined)

Just got off the phone with one of naim dealers in Italy. He said the the mech on the 5si has had some problems... and suggested to get a 5xs instead... very strange. Has anyone heard of problems on 5si?

Looks like a Rega Apollo-R for me. 

Brubacca posted:

Looks like a Rega Apollo-R for me. 

I would choose the Saturn-r instead...

In response to the replies from Steve, Huge and IB regarding my post on 'playlists'. Yes, I realize one can simply stream an album in it's entirety with a single press of a button (as I do with my CD remote). I'm not from the dark ages . However, I see a trend with younger listeners, my children included, to buy single tracks and assemble playlists. Even with older album buyers (my wife) there is a tendency to skip or delete some less desirable tracks from a rip. I'm an album-as-single-unit listener with CDs (rather obligate with LPs). Good to know there are plenty of streamers here that still hold to the entire album tradition.

I always play whole albums. If I want to flick between artists and songs, there's the radio.