Naim newbie need upgrade path help??

Also audition Tellurium Q Black Diamond

Interesting plan. Many will still argue that unless powered by 555PS or teated by Hugo, NDX cannot compare with nDAC, and therefore not with ND5/nDAC. In any case just trust only your ears and not what we posters, claim without having to pay the consequences or the bill in the end.

Chag -

Hi Matthew,

You surely have to try the Naim amps, especially since you now have a Naim source. In my opinion, it is mostly the amplifier, especially one from Naim that will lay the foundation to the Naim sound.

I have owned the Arcam Alpha 10 many years ago. Not too sure if it bears a resemblance to the house sound of the FMJ A39. If it does, I think you may be in for a surprise.

An FMJ A39 review on What Hifi revealed that the A39 can’t quite match the rhythmically adept Rega Elicit R for outright timing and lacks the Rega’s or even the Roksan K3's level of insight to deliver every last drop of emotion and nuance in the music. FWIW I have owned the Rega Elicit too and the Rega cannot match the Naim NAC202/NAP200 in areas of timing and rhythmic toe-tapping beat. There is just something special about Naim (amps) that sets it apart from the rest, and you have to listen to it for yourself to determine if it will work out for you, in your system and with your speakers.

I'm not familiar with Linn Majik 140 and unsure whether it will match well with Naim. Your plan with the Supernait2 is a good one but if you can compare it with the NAC202/NAP200/Hicap DR then it would better. I currently have the NAC282/NAP200 (NAP250 DR is on the way), and I can tell you the NAC202/NAP200 is really quite special. Fun, exuberant and lively sounding amp. The Supernait2 is very good too(I haven't listened to it though) and some liked it better than the NAC202/NAP200. It is also cheaper as well.

Thx Ryder I tried the SN2 with my majik 140 speakers and it sounded ace with the nd5 an xps dr, then sounded better gain with the ndx in lieu of the nd5

I like the upgrade options for the SN2 also would keep it to 3 boxes, well to start with

I reckon will be 2 years before I would look at a dac, might be a new model by then even??? 

I can one day aspire to the nac282 an nap250dr dream team too.....

I have experience on SN2 and 202+200+NAPSC.

SN2 is clear and clean, sound stage is quite narrow and concentrated in the middle and sound is some aggressive with my 3-way speakers with popular music. However, impressive in many kind of music.

202+200 needs NAPSC and is more lean in positive way and has very nice wide sound stage. Sound is some dark compared to SN2 and I would combine with speakers having clear enhanced treble to compensate this. Very pleasant indeed and you can listen many hours without any listening fatigue.

200 added to SN2 makes sound little bit less aggressive and I have used this combo. I also tried bi-amping SN2+200 with not as good sound as only 200 or SN2 as a power amp.

Hicap DR makes small improvement in SN2 and major improvement in 202+200+NAPSC. Sound becomes more natural with HCDR.

This is my experience with my speakers, room taste etc.

Tuomo, good post on the differences between the amps. I can somehow relate to your experience as I also own the 202/200(but I don't own the SN2 though). I am particularly intrigued by your comment about the 202/200 sounding dark when compared to the SN2. In other words, what you may have suggested is the highs or top end of the 202/200 is rolled off, warm or rounded and not as extended as the SN2. Is my interpretation correct?

If it is, what about the 282/200 combination? Do you feel this combination to be as dark as the 202/200, or the 282/200 sounds more like the SN2 ie. less dark.

Matthew Johns posted:

Thx Ryder I tried the SN2 with my majik 140 speakers and it sounded ace with the nd5 an xps dr, then sounded better gain with the ndx in lieu of the nd5

I like the upgrade options for the SN2 also would keep it to 3 boxes, well to start with

I reckon will be 2 years before I would look at a dac, might be a new model by then even??? 

I can one day aspire to the nac282 an nap250dr dream team too.....

My humble advice is if the system sounds great as it is, try not to make any changes to the system. It may ruin the balance and a complete overhaul of the rest of the components and/or speakers may be required to restore balance. If your mind is set on the SN2, just enjoy the system as it is when the piece gets into your system and try not to think about any further upgrades.

FWIW, about two or three months ago, I started a thread about a reference integrated from Naim. I didn't have any intention to upgrade any component in my system. However, one thing leads to another. I committed to an NAC 282, and the next thing i knew the 250 and Hicap dr were ordered as well. And to make things worse, my speakers will be upgraded soon after a recent speaker audition at the dealers. A seemingly unassuming thread here on the Naim forum had caused a complete revamp of my system. Of course, it is partly due to my own doing as well. 

Ryder - know exactly what you mean  I asked for some speaker advice some time ago, and ended up buying NDS and 252.... 

Hi Rider.

Yes, your interpretation is correct about rolled off top end of 202/200 based on my personal experience. If i would have known that I can compensate this easilly with different kind of speakers, I would have kept 202/200. Instead, I changed to SN2.

Then I bought 282 and thought it is good with my existing quite new 200. Sound and soundstage of 282 is excellent. However, I noticed that with my 200 it is quite thin and according to my taste has enhanced treble. Then I connected 282 with my SN2 power amp and it is balanced and excellent. People say that power amp of SN2 has similar character as 250.

I hope this helps,
Tuomo

I ve had a couple of 200 in the last 5 months. The unserviced 2003 unit in comparison was a bit fair darker ,slow and rolled off at treble.

A good 202/200 is airier ,lucid and more risolving than any SN you could think of.

One man's 'airier and resolved' is another man's light and fatiguing.

I should have added 202/200 sounds more solid and organic while adding all of the above. To me the difference isn T subtle at all.

And to me the difference is also not subtle, just in the other direction. Dry as a desert is how i describe the 202/200.

The 202/200 surely sounds thinner/leaner/drier than the 282/200 which certainly has more meat on the bones, so to speak.  I wouldn't say the 202/200 sounds excessively dry to the point of unlistenable as it will largely depend on the speakers that are used. If some Naim or lean/thin/bright speakers are matched to the 202/200, then the 202/200 will come up to be "dry as a desert". If fuller, warmer, or more rounded speakers are matched to the 202/200, the 202/200 (or the speakers) will sound organic and warm. The dryness of the 202/200 will be subdued by the warmer and fuller sounding speakers.

I think it's also a subject of listening preference. I have matched the 202/200 with the Harbeth SHL5 and Dali Mentor Menuets. The Dalis are leaner and more detailed but yet they do not sound excessively dry with the 202/200. The sound is rather balanced and airy to my ears.

I have yet to experience a "dry as a dessert" sound with the 202/200. Would appreciate some information on the speakers that are matched to the 202/200 that produced an excessively dry sound. I have experienced a dry sound before - a sound that is lean and thin without body, though the system isn't a Naim-based system.

Ovators and a CDS3.

gary yeowell posted:

Ovators and a CDS3.

Interestingly, a complete Naim system that sounds dry as a dessert. Does anyone share the same experience? S400 with NAC202/NAP200 and CDS3.

ryder. posted:

gary yeowell posted:

Ovators and a CDS3.

Interestingly, a complete Naim system that sounds dry as a dessert. Does anyone share the same experience? S400 with NAC202/NAP200 and CDS3.

Why do so you say that? CDS3 is a wonderful player and S-400 are some of the best speakers I have heard...

Adam Zielinski posted:

ryder. posted:

gary yeowell posted:

Ovators and a CDS3.

Interestingly, a complete Naim system that sounds dry as a dessert. Does anyone share the same experience? S400 with NAC202/NAP200 and CDS3.

Why do so you say that? CDS3 is a wonderful player and S-400 are some of the best speakers I have heard...

 

A Naim user has found the CDS3, 202/200 and S400 combination to sound dry as a dessert. I am asking if there is anyone who experienced the same.

People listen differently to music. Also system set up can make or break it. 

Ovators take absolute ages to run-in - in my case they started sounding 'decent' after several months. After 6 months - wow!

Adam Zielinski posted:

People listen differently to music. Also system set up can make or break it. 

Ovators take absolute ages to run-in - in my case they started sounding 'decent' after several months. After 6 months - wow!

Yes, I do understand that people listen to music differently(listening preferences), not discounting the acoustics of the room, setup of the system etc. All these will largely affect the impressions on a particular piece of component(s) in the system. To be frank, I don't really buy the notion of the 202/200 being "unlistenable" for its dryness. It may sound dry to one's ears and/or system, but that will not apply to every system or everyone. Hence my question if anyone had experienced the same results. If there are folks who use (or have used) the same components and speakers (CDS3, 202/200, S400), it would be easier to determine whether a particular component is a mismatch or it is more toward the setup and/or listening preferences.

I rather like desserts, rarely finding them to be too dry, unless it's an overcooked meringue perhaps.  
Deserts on the other hand, not exactly my cup of tea.

CDS3, dry?  Not really, no not at all, whether powered by an XPS or 555PS.
More like smooth, flowing, insightful, delicious music.

I think I'll stop there.

Certainly not run in, i had my Ovators 3 years. CDS3 dry? not a chance, the most flowing, lush  analogue sounding digital device i have encountered. Also used with Ovators, Nait5i, NaitXS, SN2, 252/250, and all more successful than 202/200. Now are the Ovators a little dry and the 202/200 way up on the dry end of the Naim ladder..... maybe.

Indeed Mr FT, indeed.

Ovators S-400 are wonderfully insightful. If anything they may be accused of 'lacking bass' at a first listen. But that would be a grave mistake - there is plenty of it and fantastically well controlled. What is more prominent is the lower mid-range where the vocals and guitars reside.

Foot tapper posted:

I rather like desserts, rarely finding them to be too dry, unless it's an overcooked meringue perhaps.  
Deserts on the other hand, not exactly my cup of tea.

CDS3, dry?  Not really, no not at all, whether powered by an XPS or 555PS.
More like smooth, flowing, insightful, delicious music.

I think I'll stop there.

Very eloquent way of putting it. I must be thinking too much about lemon meringue pie.

What that had been asked is the CDS3, 202/200 and S400 combination, not exactly the traits of one particular component alone.

Except that in my case, any of the amps mentioned sounded great, excluding the 202/200.