Minimum speaker cable length

You'll be fine with shorter lengths. Out of interest who's cable will you be using? 

Further to this...

I just checked the manuals for all the Power amps - and the requirement for speaker cables to be 3.5m (not 3m) is specified for all the stand alone power amps - but it seems that for devices like the Superunit and Unitilite and Unitquite does not specific minimum speaker cable lengths - only that they be of equal length...

I take it from this that the amplifier section in these integrated devices are designed such that they are stable with shorter length of speaker cable ... 

Please can anyone confirm...

Correct.

But don't use high capacitance cables.

The 3.5 meter length is also recommended for the integrated amps, not just the stand alone amps. Just an FYI.

Its not that simple      whilst Naim recommend 3.5m.  its not any old cable,  its 3.5m of NACA5.  But they are actually recommending a minimum output stage load inductance of 3.5uH & with NACA5 @ 1uH/m,  I'll leave the math to you.

NACA5 is a specifically designed cable that with its wide conductor spacing has high inductance,  thats why NACA5 looks the way it does - & as does Linn K20 & various VdH & others.  

Now to keep it simple  the Naim integrated amps are not that fussy about speaker cable, except as Huge said "don't use high capacitance cables"    So just have a cable as long as possible,  & if you can tuck a metre or two away the more the better.  

But don't coil any excess cable.. best snake it in the shape of an 'Ω'. Again you can do the maths if you want, but coiling will add too much inductance ahead of the crossover.

This Unitilite will be my second system in the kitchen and will replace an ageing mini system in the kitchen - so dont need long lengths of speaker wire - 2m per channel will be more than enough....

I have a set of Audioquest Indigo+ cables in the loft from some time back, that I was considering using - they are a pair of 6m cables - so was going to cut one one of them into a pair of short cables - I didnt want to have 3m on each side as I will have difficulty hiding the extra length..... Alternatively I am happy to get some Linn cable (i see a 2nd hand set being sold).... both these cables are not high capacitance cables.... so it's only the question of the minimum length I could get away with....

If the length is too short and the amp does become unstable because the speaker cable is too short - how will this manifest itself? Amp shutting down? Overheating? Distorted sound? 

Yes if the cable is too short for the amp, then it may become unstable either constantly or under certain conditions / music content, causing it to overheat and shutdown. It will sound less than stellar as well. Although some of the more junior amps have more protection.. I would check with Naim themselves if you are planning to use less than 3.5 m of NACA5 just to be safe. It will only take a phone call or an email.

Simon

To correct a myth...

Naim instructions for the integrated amps don't specify a minimum length; currently, the actual passage concerning speaker cables is:

"Naim speaker cable will provide the best results, however, a wide range of speaker cable types can be used without risk of damage to the amplifier."

So no mention of cable lengths for the integrated amps.
But still don't use high capacitance cables despite this, and don't go silly short (<2m) on the cables just in case your speakers have a high capacitance.

I know everyone is trying to help but  advice on this forum sometimes can be really conflicting and confusing. 

Here is Richard Dane's advice. 

https://forums.naimaudio.com/to...-for-naim-amplifiers

Now, who do you listen to? 

Is that for the NAP series power amps or the Integrated amps and Uniti series?  The minimum requirements are different.
 (Rhetorical question:  That's very good guidance for the NAP power amps.) 

Who do you listen to?   The manual that comes with that particular amp of course!
(There is a TLA for that. )

Tony2011 - that comment made by Richard was posted in 2011. I have read a more recent article 2014 or 2015 where a Naim rep (Steve Sells) was interviewed. According to him with the new DR amps (NAP250 DR, NAP300 DR etc.), one can literally use ANY type of speaker cable with the amp without any concern. Length was not mentioned but I presume it won't matter as well. I haven't received the NAP250 DR yet and am still on the NACA5 (with the NAP200). I will probably send an email to Naim support to seek their confirmation on this. I intend to use my Pure Note Cerulean silver speaker cables with the NAP250 DR and compare it with the NACA5. The cables have been unused for many years now, alongside some cheaper (less exotic) cables.

Huge posted:

To correct a myth...

Naim instructions for the integrated amps don't specify a minimum length; currently, the actual passage concerning speaker cables is:

"Naim speaker cable will provide the best results, however, a wide range of speaker cable types can be used without risk of damage to the amplifier."

So no mention of cable lengths for the integrated amps.

You are incorrect sir!  Below is from the current manual for the Supernait2, Nait XS2 and 5Si:

1.2 Loudspeaker Cables Loudspeaker cables are vitally important. They should each be at least 3.5 metres long and of equal length. The recommended maximum is normally 20 metres although longer cables may be viable with some Naim amplifiers.
Some Naim amplifiers are designed only to work with Naim loudspeaker cable and using alternatives may degrade the performance or even damage the amplifier. Other Naim amplifiers can be used with any high quality loudspeaker cable although we recommend that Naim loudspeaker cable is used. Naim loudspeaker cable is directional and should be oriented so that the printed arrow points towards the speakers. The Naim loudspeaker connectors supplied are designed to comply with European safety legislation and must be used.

The exact same text is used for the older amp manual that covers all amps from 500 to 155 & Supernait (1) to Nait.

As I mentioned it appears that the 3.5m rule applies to standalone amplifiers including the Supernait2, Nait and NAP200, NAP250 etc....

However the manual for the integrated streaming products such as the Unitilite, the advice is:

"A set of stereo speaker connection sockets is provided on your Uniti Series product rear panel. Custom Naim Audio loudspeaker connectors are supplied to make the connection, and in order to comply with current European safety regulations these should always be used. Naim Audio speaker cable will provide the best results, however, a range of speaker cable types may be used without risk. Contact your local Naim retailer for further advice. Use equal lengths of speaker cable for each channel."

i.e. no mention of cable length...

I did send a e-mail for NAIM requesting confirmation - their answer was:

"Hello

 It would cause that much of an issue but we do recommend that you use 3.5M of speaker cable of NAC A5."

I think the 'not' was omitted.... so I am assuming that unless the manual specifically states the requirement for 3.5m of speaker cable, it would be ok to have a shorter length of speaker cable... 

It looks as if in the 'cheaper' NAIM products the requirement to have the 3.5m of speaker to help keep the amp stable is not a requirement... 

Mike-B posted:

The exact same text is used for the older amp manual that covers all amps from 500 to 155 & Supernait (1) to Nait.

So.......

If there was a reason Naim wanted to change the text, they would have.

badlands posted:

Huge posted:

To correct a myth...

Naim instructions for the integrated amps don't specify a minimum length; currently, the actual passage concerning speaker cables is:

"Naim speaker cable will provide the best results, however, a wide range of speaker cable types can be used without risk of damage to the amplifier."

So no mention of cable lengths for the integrated amps.

You are incorrect sir!  Below is from the current manual for the Supernait2, Nait XS2 and 5Si:

1.2 Loudspeaker Cables Loudspeaker cables are vitally important. They should each be at least 3.5 metres long and of equal length. The recommended maximum is normally 20 metres although longer cables may be viable with some Naim amplifiers.
Some Naim amplifiers are designed only to work with Naim loudspeaker cable and using alternatives may degrade the performance or even damage the amplifier. Other Naim amplifiers can be used with any high quality loudspeaker cable although we recommend that Naim loudspeaker cable is used. Naim loudspeaker cable is directional and should be oriented so that the printed arrow points towards the speakers. The Naim loudspeaker connectors supplied are designed to comply with European safety legislation and must be used.

That's interesting.  That's in the generic introduction section of the manual, whereas I was looking at the specific section for each amp.

OK, so now we have ambiguity in the manual, so cancel the RTFM in this case!

No wonder everyone is confused (as now am I).  As it happens my speaker cables have to be 8m long, but they're not NACA5 and don't have the same inductance.

Nothing new with the confusion Huge,  we've been along this goat trail a few times before

My manual starts in the intro section with ...........   1.2 Loudspeaker Cables Loudspeaker cables are vitally important. They should each be at least 3.5 metres long and of equal length. The recommended maximum is normally 20 metres although longer cables may be viable with some Naim amplifiers.   (NB:   no mention of NACA5)

In the Supernait section is says ...............   Naim Audio speaker cable will provide the best results; however, a wide range of speaker cable types can be used without risk of damage to the amplifier.

The 250 section says .............  Only Naim Audio speaker cable should be used to connect a loudspeaker to the output of the NAP 250. Custom Naim Audio loudspeaker connectors are supplied to make the connection and in order to comply with current European safety regulations these should always be used.
DAMAGE TO THE AMPLIFIER MAY RESULT IF “HIGH DEFINITION ” CABLE OR ANY OTHER SPECIAL CABLE IS USED TO CONNECT THE LOUDSPEAKERS.

I have 5.5m of Chord Odyssey & @ 0.6uH/m it is 3.3uH per channel - I must remember to loose some sleep over this

ryder. posted:

Tony2011 - that comment made by Richard was posted in 2011. I have read a more recent article 2014 or 2015 where a Naim rep (Steve Sells) was interviewed. According to him with the new DR amps (NAP250 DR, NAP300 DR etc.), one can literally use ANY type of speaker cable with the amp without any concern. Length was not mentioned but I presume it won't matter as well. I haven't received the NAP250 DR yet and am still on the NACA5 (with the NAP200). I will probably send an email to Naim support to seek their confirmation on this. I intend to use my Pure Note Cerulean silver speaker cables with the NAP250 DR and compare it with the NACA5. The cables have been unused for many years now, alongside some cheaper (less exotic) cables.

That is not correct, I just e-mailed Naim, within the last month, and their response was that while you can use different cable other than Naca5, cables such as Nordost are not recommended because of compatibility issues, DR or no DR.

Mike-B posted:

Nothing new with the confusion Huge,  we've been along this goat trail a few times before

My manual starts in the intro section with ...........   1.2 Loudspeaker Cables Loudspeaker cables are vitally important. They should each be at least 3.5 metres long and of equal length. The recommended maximum is normally 20 metres although longer cables may be viable with some Naim amplifiers.   (NB:   no mention of NACA5)

 

Actually it does. From the manual:

Some Naim amplifiers are designed only to work with Naim loudspeaker cable and using alternatives may degrade the performance or even damage the amplifier. Other Naim amplifiers can be used with any high quality loudspeaker cable although we recommend that Naim loudspeaker cable is used.

Badlands,  I am very aware of all this & I do fully understand the technicalities.  The point is the average punter does not:  the way its written is not clear & it really does deserve a re-write to make it unambiguous & better explained for the benefit of the average punter.  

+1

Especially for dyslexics (we are about 5% of the population, and becoming increasingly vociferous - and yes I do see the irony there!).

Like you Mike I'll have to remember to loose sleep over my non-Naim cables.

I know this may sound strange, but I am amazed at the number of people who still ask, here or elsewhere, about the speaker cables' length requirements after they have bought the amp: they seem to know that a certain length is 'necessary' or recommended, but do not usually know why; well, I would never buy an amp if I was aware, or told, that it needs a certain type or length of speaker cable due to 'stability' issues (unless I first got some proper documentation that would clear my doubts); but some do.

What I mean to say is: if you have bought an appliance containing an audio amplifier without, or before, knowing exactly what the speaker-length-stability-issue thing is, why do you worry about it after? Just plug some length of normal speaker wire into it and enjoy music... (and life).

Best

M

fully agree - I am new to NAIM and so far all the manuals (for the N272 and XPS) have been very clear - it looks as if there are some items - which in the case of speaker cable length - where the recommendations really need to be sorted out, since unlike most other amplifiers, this factor can make a difference between a stable set-up or the amp becoming unstable...

I do understand that with the higher quality NAIM amps that this is the way they are designed to give the best sound and have no issue with this - it's just that they need to be more specific with the lower end of their range.. 

But maybe I am being unfair - if it is possible to use 'any' practical speaker cable length - then in fact the manuals are fully correct and clear.... 

Remember though that most people will have the services of their dealer to makes sure they have the right type and length of cables to suit the amp they have purchased,

How many (apart from Mike ) actually read the manual...