Moving on from PMC 23s

Test Gold Note A6XL ... you may be happiest in the world. I have the himself with the 272 / 250.2 and I am very satisfied. Balanced speakers with very quickly and warm bass.
Italian Art

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Try to audition some ATC and Dynaudio. They will add some foundation to the sound.

There is something to be said about speaker manufacturers who make their own drivers.

Dynaudio not only makes their drivers but also their cabinets. It honestly makes a difference.

Can someone articulate what 'dry' sounding means?

Its a leaner sounding speaker,more two dimensional sounding,not fluid.

how about the new PMC twenty5 series from PMC - apparently builds upon the twenty series which you clearly like

i moved from pmc twenty 23 to atc scm40 (active version) as I found the 23s too unforgiving. i prefer the scm40 in every rdepartment, bass, mid, and top end. from what you say it could be a great match for u.

I always thought that the PMCs are outstanding speakers. Especially the floor standing ones. 

No suggestions from me... I think they are hard to replace. Definitely a demo is required in your case. 

I do think that standmounters always image better, but loses out the the bass department.

i also recently tried ATC SCM19A actives (new and not run in) that sounded superb but preferred the extra depth and balance that the SCM40A provide. One revealing song was the bass guitar in 'A Forest' by The Cure.

At first I thought the SCM40A was too much for our new house and listening room (approx 4m x 4m). The floorboards were bouncing with the low frequencies. However, after refurbishing, furnishing, carpeting, and introducing thick granite slabs and spike shoes from audio serenity under the speakers the floor board bouncing pretty much disappeared. The room just about copes. The SCM40A is a very special speaker.

i agree the Twenty 23 is an outstanding speaker that is hard to beat. I personally just found the ATC SCM40 more forgiving.

Halloween Man, I did find the SCM19, albeit passive, required many tens of hours run in before the bass opened out... and sound integrated. I can imagine a non run in pair sounding not quite right... Certainly was the case for me. However I am used to ATC speakers now having had severeal pairs over the years, and do now run them in mono out of phase facing each other for a few days continuously before I even bother to listen to them... It's one of my only real gripes with ATC speakers. But yes if using the three way 40s, I would go active.

I was inspired by Simon-in Suffolk to try then purchased the SCM19 and agree with his comment that they take quite a time to sound right. Ours made a noticeable step change improvement after about a week of 7x24 use and continued to further improve after that.

circumstances meant i only had one night with the scm19a. i'm sure the 19 had more to offer. the 40 took a week or so to open up. my feeling was that the 19 would not be able to close the gap.

I recently listened to some ProAc D30R and this was the same impression I came away with, in comparison to some Sonus Faber Venere 3.0. I realize that they are way different in price.  

I actually preferred the warmer, not as detailed  Sonus Faber speakers. 

Maybe give that brand a shot?  

Difficult to know what the OP means by texture and depth.

IME, ATC and PMC have a similar signature, certainly when comparing the Fact range with the SCM range.

 As manufactures, they have a similar heritage.  The slight difference is that PMC tend to specify drivers and work closely with SEAS to get customised drivers. Wheras ATC design and manf their own.

Jude

Wayne, Is it possible that changes elsewhere might allow you to keep the PMCs? For instance, I recently changed to Naim speakers which required (IMO) a change of phonostage to bring everything back into line.

Just a view.

Anyway, Naca5 if you haven't any already, with the Naim bananas that came with your SN2.

Chris

I'll recommend a demo of Scansonic if you can. if you have the space to spread them apart 7-9', 9' is better, and 18"-24" from the back wall. They love Naim gear. Surprised there is not more Scansonic/Raidho owners on the forum because of the synergy they have with Naim. 

I'd be keen to listen to the new Twenty.5 series if you already like PMC's. If not, why don't you try an upgrade on your NDX such as a power supply or DAC to see if that gives more of what you're after? 

From time to time I feel my 20.23s could do with more power than my NAP 100 can deliver in my relatively large living room. I've been toying with the idea of adding a 250DR.

Another option is to trade in the PMCs for the ATC SCM40A. I'm quite drawn to the concept of active speakers and they would get me one step closer to my definition of a 3 box system i.e. combined Pre/DAC and 2 speakers. Earlier this year Hi-Fi+ paired the NAC-N 272 and ATC SCM40A and were very positive about the combination.

The 23s can benefit from and reveal a significant amount of improvement on the front end far in excess of what seems reasonable for their price range.

By all means listen to other speakers. But I would suggest also auditioning what benefits are to be gained from taking the electronics further. 

When I first heard 23s they were on the end of a SuperUniti and they were very nice. They sounded like a good speaker in their price range but nothing more. But I ended up going for something far above that on the electronics.  Yet the 23s have stayed the course - mainly because they work so well in the room and have never failed to respond to other system changes.

Before parting with the 20.23s, it might be worth sticking a 250DR in front of them, if you're looking for more texture and weight.

I heard the new twenty5 22 and 24 last week. The 22 were OK but the 24 were a lot better as you would expect. The fact 8 I always liked as well.

Thanks all for the input. Especially the thoughts on trying upgraded Source or Amp. Will definitely give them a try. Also, I am thinking of Focal 926s and Neat SX1s as alternative speakers. Will report back

I had some 20.23s when I had a SuperUniti. When I swapped to a 272/250DR the speakers were transformed, giving a fast yet weighty sound. I only sold them because I found some SL2s, which I'd wanted for ages. I certainly wouldn't swap them for Neats or Focals, neither of which I feel are as good. I'm not sure which speaker cables you have - I used TQB to great effect. 

I have Naca5 but have a TQB interconnect