Nait XS2 Upgrade Options

Flatcap XS. It'll sound better. 

Depends on how much you want to put into it.  as HH suggested, a Flatcap will improve things, but a Hicap (2 or DR) will make it even better, and it is well worth the money to get that's been previously owned.  The difference from Flatcap to Hicap is not subtle. 

At new prices, a NaitXS plus Hicap costs as much as a Supernait. On that basis I'd go for the Supernait, although of course, it's not that simple if you already own the XS. 

Mark,

If you have access to a Naim dealer why not go and get an in-shop demo of a FCXS and HCDR on a Nait XS 2? After that listen to bare SN2 with the same speakers. Discover the differences and determine the VFM for yourself. Unlike speakers where in-home demo is warranted, I feel you can get the gist of PSU performance in a shop.

A little Search will deter many posts on the subject even if more referring to the XS than to the XS2. Usually, the FCXS, originally designed for the x and XS series, is preferred for mainly bringing air and transparence in a more relaxed presentation. The HC will give a more forward and denser signature that may often turn into a tiring if not aggressive experience after extended listening.

As rightly posted by JOERAND, the best is to have both PSU demonstrated. Differences are quite immediate. Just don't let the HC bluff you in the first 30mn. Listen for and look for the pros and cons of both units going back and forth and enjoy the music. 

Chag

Chag... posted:

Differences are quite immediate. Just don't let the HC bluff you in the first 30mn. Listen for and look for the pros and cons of both units going back and forth and enjoy the music. 

Good point Chag. While the hifi differences in PSUs are immediately recognizable at a dealer, long term listening at home could be another matter. PSUs tighten and control bass, but that bass could potentially become overbearing depending on the volume of the listening room. I'd amend my post above and say it's easy to determine the best contender at the dealer, but proper to take that one home for a demo to be certain it works in the long term with a variety of music.

In general, I find it best to stick with the power supply that was built to accompany the unit in question, hence the recommendation of the flatcap XS. When I had a CD5x I tried a Hicap and it sounded overblown and manic, yet with a flatcap 2x it was just right - like baby bear's bed. Adding a Hicap to a Nait may make it too much like daddy bear's bed for comfort. 

In the context of my system I'm really happy with a HiCap on my XS. I had the Flatcap against the HiCap on demo at home and I must admit I was so much impressed by the hifi improvements like soundstage, seperation of instruments, air in between, body of singer and instruments etc. that I decided in the fraction of a moment. For me the HiCap was simply more fun. HiCap DR even better with the lower noise level and more details.

Hi all. I have the current model XS2 in my second system and use it a lot. I now use it with a Flatcap XS. I have a Hi Cap DR on the stageline. For a week or two I also had a SuperCap DR in the house, and put it on the XS2. The result of trying each of these power supplies was interesting.....and not what you would necessarily expect!

The SuperCap was way over the top for my/room system and the bass was simply over powering. No doubt you could alter speaker positions, listening position etc., but that wasn't an option. Likewise the Hicap DR was a similar effect, but not as bad. You could easily live with this, especially with a few tweaks to speaker position, and as I already had it cost didn't come into it.

for me the FlatCap XS gave the lift I was looking for, whilst keeping the nait character intact.

hope this helps.

Flatcap,i m preatty much with the above.

but i 'd buy it only  in the event of powering two electronics ,if not much better a bare supernait

I d riserve the hicap to the supernait and/or separates.

Mark, Do Naim supply a lavender interconnect with the ND5XS? If so, try it in place of the Rega.

You could just leave your amp bare and try an XP5XS on your streamer instead. Then add a FCXS later.

Chris

Good catch Chris. Naim does supply a lavender with the ND5. It should also come with a S/H purchase.

This being said, I would go nDAC on ND5 before going XP5 on nDAC. FCXS remains first and lower cost upgrade IMHO.

Chag - 

Mark,

I also use an ND5 XS and Nait XS 2.

The change I wanted to achieve was this: more clarity / transparency / more detail.  I wasn't bothered about more bass or deeper bass, but greater definition in the bass transients would be welcomed.  I achieved this in two ways.

First was adding an external power supply to the preamp of the Nait.  This certainly gave more clarity across the spectrum and increased the bass weight and depth a bit.  It was definitely a worthwhile investment.

The second was however the best VFM upgrade I've ever made to any system in over 30 years.  I replace the lavender interconnect with a DIY one made from Mogami Neglex W2534 (Mogami Neglex W2549 gives broadly similar results and is much easier to wire up); this cost less than £10!  It increased clarity a lot further and also cleaned up the bass transients a little.
N.B. the lavender interconnect is actually quite good, it's just that the Mogami interconnect is that much better.

The overall results were a very big improvement, a lot more detail, a presentation I perceive as more natural and now words in lyrics are much easier to hear properly.

Huge posted:

Mark,

I also use an ND5 XS and Nait XS 2.

The change I wanted to achieve was this: more clarity / transparency / more detail.  I wasn't bothered about more bass or deeper bass, but greater definition in the bass transients would be welcomed.  I achieved this in two ways.

First was adding an external power supply to the preamp of the Nait.  This certainly gave more clarity across the spectrum and increased the bass weight and depth a bit.  It was definitely a worthwhile investment.

The second was however the best VFM upgrade I've ever made to any system in over 30 years.  I replace the lavender interconnect with a DIY one made from Mogami Neglex W2534 (Mogami Neglex W2549 gives broadly similar results and is much easier to wire up); this cost less than £10!  It increased clarity a lot further and also cleaned up the bass transients a little.
N.B. the lavender interconnect is actually quite good, it's just that the Mogami interconnect is that much better.

The overall results were a very big improvement, a lot more detail, a presentation I perceive as more natural and now words in lyrics are much easier to hear properly.

Huge,

I am currently trying out the first change you mention. The main improvements I'm finding are more clarity in the mids with increased texture, presence and sound stage. Unfortunately for me the downside is an increase in bass that I'm finding hard to live. I was hoping for a leaner snappier bass but what I'm getting more thud, thud, thud.  A dilemma as for now room treatments are out of the question.

Hi Iconoclast,

Which PSU are you trying out?  I use "the PSU that dare not speak its name!"
(I don't so much get an increase in presence, but yes, texture is much improved - and even more so when I fitted the Mogami cable.)

What speakers do you have?  Is there a possibility of moving their position in the room - if so REW has a nifty room simulator that allows you to move 'virtual speakers' around, and look at the theoretical room response that results from different positions.  You may be able to find a location that doesn't excite the room resonances so much.

I think that any external PSU for the preamp is going to increase the perceived level of the bass to some extent, but this effect will vary quite a lot between different PSUs.

A Flatcap 2X or 2XS should improve bass performance allround, being both deeper and tighter at the same time. A Hicap may well be over the top..... or not.

Huge posted:

Hi Iconoclast,

Which PSU are you trying out?  I use "the PSU that dare not speak its name!"
(I don't so much get an increase in presence, but yes, texture is much improved - and even more so when I fitted the Mogami cable.)

What speakers do you have?  Is there a possibility of moving their position in the room - if so REW has a nifty room simulator that allows you to move 'virtual speakers' around, and look at the theoretical room response that results from different positions.  You may be able to find a location that doesn't excite the room resonances so much.

I think that any external PSU for the preamp is going to increase the perceived level of the bass to some extent, but this effect will vary quite a lot between different PSUs.

Same PSU as you.  Speakers are Proac Studio 115.  My options for room placement are very limited at the moment. Prior to owning PSU I did try firing down the length of the room (20ft) which sounded too ''bassless''. In any case I couldn't have left speakers in this position for long due to space restrictions. When I want to increase bass presence slightly (with classical for instance) or when neighbors aren't around I switch on a small REL sub. I pretty much know where the problem is and am quite sure a couple of corner traps would solve it but that's something I need to work out with SOH. So many compromises living in a flat.

BTW One of the reasons I went with an XS 2 instead of a SN 2 was that the latter's bass was too much for my room. I find the PSU makes the XS 2 sound somewhat like the SN 2

Mark -

I have a Hicap on the way and will compare it to the FC2 I currently use (on a Nait 5).  Depending on your timeframe, I'll play both and post (or email) results.

In the past, a better power supply was just that - better.  So a Hicap was inarguably better than a Flatcap, no matter what it was powering.  Ditto a Supercap vs Hicap - hence why some preferred a 72/Supercap to a 82/Hicap (yes, that's going back a ways).  A Hicap/Nait combination will extend and control bass notes much more effectively than a FC; this can result in exciting room standing waves as well as underlining the need for anything from better setup to speaker placement to moving furniture around as room treatment.  I have never heard a Nait/FC that was better than a Nait/HC. 

That said, there are a variety of reasons why a FC might be preferable.  It is considerably less expensive, it fits better visually with a 5 series component, and you can power two pieces of gear with it.  If a FC is preferred over a HC, that is a sign that there are other issues in the system to address, not that the FC is better than the HC. 

I tried a hicap dr with my 152xs and agree with previous posts that it sounded congested and somewhat overblown. The flatcap xs was superior in all areas in my system 

Regards 

Stuart 

Iconoclast, two suggestions...

First, in terms of corner bass traps, how about making them decorative using Helmholtz resonators:  Take two LARGE ceramic vases, put a little bit of wadding in the bottom of each, then partially close off the top with a short pipe extending down into the vase.  Tune the diameter and length of the pipe against the volume of the vase to match the resonance you want to absorb.

Second, if the bass resonance of the room is close to the port frequency of the speakers, close off the port on the speaker boxes and run them as infinite baffle (this is what I have done).  But I guess you've already tried this.

Thank you all for the responses.

I will put in an order for a FC as I think this is the sensible first step without going OTT as recommended.  My dealer also recommended the flatcap.

Regards,

Mark

Bob Edwards posted:

Mark -

I have a Hicap on the way and will compare it to the FC2 I currently use (on a Nait 5).  Depending on your timeframe, I'll play both and post (or email) results.

In the past, a better power supply was just that - better.  So a Hicap was inarguably better than a Flatcap, no matter what it was powering.  Ditto a Supercap vs Hicap - hence why some preferred a 72/Supercap to a 82/Hicap (yes, that's going back a ways).  A Hicap/Nait combination will extend and control bass notes much more effectively than a FC; this can result in exciting room standing waves as well as underlining the need for anything from better setup to speaker placement to moving furniture around as room treatment.  I have never heard a Nait/FC that was better than a Nait/HC. 

That said, there are a variety of reasons why a FC might be preferable.  It is considerably less expensive, it fits better visually with a 5 series component, and you can power two pieces of gear with it.  If a FC is preferred over a HC, that is a sign that there are other issues in the system to address, not that the FC is better than the HC. 

That's exactly what I was thinking, but not having the opportunity to experience multiple PS.s, though it best that I sit on the bench.

However, I'm considering upgrading from HCDR to SCDR, researched some previous post, and this is what I came up with:

As one upgrades with PSs, 3 things differs as it pertains to SQ!

1. A larger transformer--+ punch and juice

2. A lower noice floor--+ can't hurt

3. Increase in accuracy of voltage points-++++

So of the three, which is the culprit that can take a system OTT?

Just curious

I know, your dealer suggested the FC, but Joerand & Chag had some excellent advice, have the Dealer demo both units!

 Allante93!

Mark Cane posted:

I will put in an order for a FC as I think this is the sensible first step without going OTT as recommended.  My dealer also recommended the flatcap.

Great. Tell us then how it sounds. Always a lot of fun for us posters of the greater advices who don't get to pay the bills in the end..

Chag -

Mark Cane posted:

Thank you all for the responses.

I will put in an order for a FC as I think this is the sensible first step without going OTT as recommended.  My dealer also recommended the flatcap.

Regards,

Mark

Cool. Why no lavender interconnect?

Chris

Huge posted:

Iconoclast, two suggestions...

First, in terms of corner bass traps, how about making them decorative using Helmholtz resonators:  Take two LARGE ceramic vases, put a little bit of wadding in the bottom of each, then partially close off the top with a short pipe extending down into the vase.  Tune the diameter and length of the pipe against the volume of the vase to match the resonance you want to absorb.

Second, if the bass resonance of the room is close to the port frequency of the speakers, close off the port on the speaker boxes and run them as infinite baffle (this is what I have done).  But I guess you've already tried this.

Thanks Huge.

I'll look into those resonators but I'd need to figure out how to make them so they don't look worse than actual bass traps.

Yes I have tried plugging the ports with socks but I found it killed not only the bass but the sound altogether.