Dead UnitiServes Society

Adam Zielinski posted:

That is where you'd see an external USB drive if I'm not mistaken. 

Nope, it's not that either as there are no external USB drives attached.  It's clearly listed as a Store and is a local not external or network drive, which is what makes me think it is the SSD.

Do you only have one drive listed under the Network store section?

King Size posted:

Adam Zielinski posted:

That is where you'd see an external USB drive if I'm not mistaken. 

Nope, it's not that either as there are no external USB drives attached.  It's clearly listed as a Store and is a local not external or network drive, which is what makes me think it is the SSD.

Do you only have one drive listed under the Network store section?

I'm typing frommemory now, as I'm ona business trip in Asia now...

My set up is similar to yours. The D: is just a path, which cannot be used. This where a USB drive would appear had it been connected. If it is not connected it's just an 'empty' path/ nothing to be concerned about.

On a 'share' side I just see my NAS dirve and all the folders that have been created there.

King Size posted:

Update

Looks like the UnitiServe decided that the SSD drive was the location to rip CD's to (even though it said the Music Store was on the NAS).  Anyway, I used the Web Client to raise the priority of the Music Store on the NAS and all is working now.

Does the local internal SSD drive even need to appear in the Music Store section or can I delete it?  According to N-serve its status is (non-applicable) and its priority  is "read only".

 

My guess was that it was looking to the internal SSD . . . as apparently it was.  I would NOT delete that Store.  So what if it shows up in a list?? Once you've got the settings sorted, you'll automatically rip to the nas and the fact that the ssd Store shows up in the list on the web client is something you should ignore!

Thats my thought too Bart.  No plans to delete that store i'm just curious as to what it is and why its there

King Size posted:

Thats my thought too Bart.  No plans to delete that store i'm just curious as to what it is and why its there

 

King Size - I should be back from Asia this weekend. I will double check few things on my network and will get back to you with the functionality of that D: path.

Adam

Apologise if this has been raised previously, but is there any concensus on whether to use the Userve in WAV or FLAC mode? NAIM are very clear that WAV is best, but there some (most recently on the bits are bits thread) who recommend FLAC because the metadata is better and  the resulting files are more useful if/when the Userve dies. 

Keith

KRM posted:

Apologise if this has been raised previously, but is there any concensus on whether to use the Userve in WAV or FLAC mode? NAIM are very clear that WAV is best, but there some (most recently on the bits are bits thread) who recommend FLAC because the metadata is better and  the resulting files are more useful if/when the Userve dies. 

Keith

If you don't intend to use the CD rips on anything other than a Naim device there's no reason to convert to FLAC other than saving quite a bit of disc space. If you do use them elsewhere, non-Naim devices can't read the metadata on Naim CD rips, so the solution is to convert to FLAC on the Unitiserve before copying them. For example, I have a Sony ZX2 Walkman, and copy music to this. Also, if you ever replace a US with a regular NAS/server, the music files need to be FLAC. You can always re-convert the FLACs to another format, or even back to WAV, at a later date if you want.

ChrisSU posted:

KRM posted:

Apologise if this has been raised previously, but is there any concensus on whether to use the Userve in WAV or FLAC mode? NAIM are very clear that WAV is best, but there some (most recently on the bits are bits thread) who recommend FLAC because the metadata is better and  the resulting files are more useful if/when the Userve dies. 

Keith

If you don't intend to use the CD rips on anything other than a Naim device there's no reason to convert to FLAC other than saving quite a bit of disc space. If you do use them elsewhere, non-Naim devices can't read the metadata on Naim CD rips, so the solution is to convert to FLAC on the Unitiserve before copying them. For example, I have a Sony ZX2 Walkman, and copy music to this. Also, if you ever replace a US with a regular NAS/server, the music files need to be FLAC. You can always re-convert the FLACs to another format, or even back to WAV, at a later date if you want.

Just to build a bit on Chris's very good explanation:

* When a UnitiServe rips a CD to WAV, the WAV files do not contain any metadata as such
* All the information (metadata) is stored in a separate file, placed by a US in the same folder as the tracks and a cover art (in JPG format)
* UnitiServe makes this data available as a UPnP to a NaimApp, so browsing by genre, artist, composer etc is available
* In addition all the data is compiled into a virtual booklet, with live Internet links available when browsing via a NAIM app
* WAV is a prefered format by NAIM for various reasons, mostly to do with lowering a computational load during playback

When the NAIM special WAV files are taken out of the UnitServe ecosystem we have the following scenaio:

* All rips are catalogued into artist folders and whithin those into album folders - that is how a UnitiServe builds a library
* No metadata is available to external UPnP servers - the special file is simply not readable as it's format is proprietary to NAIM
* Browsing of the content is only really available by 'Folder View'
* In order for UnitiServe rips to be 'readible fully' by other UPnP servers WAV rips should be converted to FLAC within the UnitiServe ecosystem.

In a perfect world, when UnitiServe (or its successor if / when it arrives) reads the WAV rips well and all works. So there is no need to convert files from WAV to FLAC. At the moment that is how I'm storing my files.

As to a debate of FLAC vs WAV. UnitiServe has a function of transcoding FLAC to WAV before serving it to a streamer via a network.

Adam

Hi Chris,

Yes, I agree. What you're saying is that there are good reasons to convert to FLAC and why wouldn't you if there was no price to pay in sound quality. Naim are clear that there is, but it's possible to convert on the fly and most of my hi res stuff is FLAC. it does feel safer to have FLAC files for the evil day when the Userve dies.

Is it possible to convert to FLAC, back and then convert back?

Just some advice.. before you set your hear on transcoding on the fly... convince yourself or demonstrate to yourself on your setup there is no SQ downside with your NAS/media server in doing real time transcoding. I iscovered there was a small SQ penalty on my system when I changed media server. I have created some charts and analysis that for my setup illustrate the differences on the wire using TCP over Ethernet between native wav and transcoded wav with my media servers which I correlated to SQ... it's nothing to do with the bits, but it's all to do with the timing consistency...

KRM posted:

Hi Chris,

Yes, I agree. What you're saying is that there are good reasons to convert to FLAC and why wouldn't you if there was no price to pay in sound quality. Naim are clear that there is, but it's possible to convert on the fly and most of my hi res stuff is FLAC. it does feel safer to have FLAC files for the evil day when the Userve dies.

Is it possible to convert to FLAC, back and then convert back?

Yes no problem. If there will ever be a firmware update it would be fantastic if we could use wav on the disk in the active stores, but have the backup converted to flac. In this way we would get the best of both worlds.

Claus

Claus-Thoegersen posted:

If there will ever be a firmware update it would be fantastic if we could use wav on the disk in the active stores, but have the backup converted to flac. In this way we would get the best of both worlds.

Claus

Claus - that is a seriously good idea. WAV files stored by UnitiServe for playback and FLAC files in a backup / copy for use externally.

I wonder if moderators / Naim staff are still watching this thread....

My point was that it may be possible to convert to FLAC, use the backup utility to copy the FLAC files to a NAS and then converting back to WAV 

KRM posted:

My point was that it may be possible to convert to FLAC, use the backup utility to copy the FLAC files to a NAS and then converting back to WAV 

That is how I understood it.

But....

Wouldn't it be neater if a UnitiServe could keep the original WAV rips intact and simply produce FLAC copies, directly to an external drive (say plugged to one of it's USB ports)?

Which raises an interesting point - why has the US got so many USB ports? Especially considering Naim deprecates using them to back up.

Richard Morris posted:

Which raises an interesting point - why has the US got so many USB ports? Especially considering Naim deprecates using them to back up.

Probably because the main board is a pretty standard small form factor PC board. Just customised with Naim proprietary software and a dedicated Naim S/PDIF driver PCI card. 

Adam Zielinski posted:

KRM posted:

My point was that it may be possible to convert to FLAC, use the backup utility to copy the FLAC files to a NAS and then converting back to WAV 

That is how I understood it.

But....

Wouldn't it be neater if a UnitiServe could keep the original WAV rips intact and simply produce FLAC copies, directly to an external drive (say plugged to one of it's USB ports)?

I would also be very happy if this was possible!!

Lets email Naim Support so Naim can see how serious we are!

Adam Zielinski posted:

KRM posted:

My point was that it may be possible to convert to FLAC, use the backup utility to copy the FLAC files to a NAS and then converting back to WAV 

That is how I understood it.

But....

Wouldn't it be neater if a UnitiServe could keep the original WAV rips intact and simply produce FLAC copies, directly to an external drive (say plugged to one of it's USB ports)?

I prefer to store FLACs on my Unitiserve, so the backup on my NAS is also FLAC. However, you can't have too many backups, preferably including an off-site one. Copying the backup files from the NAS to a USB drive is an easy way to do this, and these copies can of course be stored in any format, WAV if you prefer. 

Adam Zielinski posted:

King Size posted:

Thats my thought too Bart.  No plans to delete that store i'm just curious as to what it is and why its there

 

King Size - I should be back from Asia this weekend. I will double check few things on my network and will get back to you with the functionality of that D: path.

Adam

OK - a bit wiser now (just a bit...). Had a look at my UnitiServe via Mac's n-Serve application.

Music Repositories:

* USB Devices - this is where content of a memory stick shows up - there are 4 USB ports. And as per US's manual they are designed for smaller USB memory 'devices' rather than large USB drives.

* Network Shares - content of a NAS should appear here (i.e. Rips and Backup folders)

* Network Stores:

- NAS-based store for downloads. If a 'store' is based on a NAS, it will show up as Type=Remote

- d:\music - this I believe is the content of a local SSD folder which contains a reference database. Type = Local and it's not accessible for a user.

So - my strong suggestion is to leave the d:\ as it is

Adam

Thanks Adam,  Yes that is pretty much how I see things too.  Thanks for checking.

I admire all of your perserverence, but this is like listening to an addiction support therapy group. It's time to give up on the US. It doesn't work well and it never will, and it's making you miserable. 

My £250 Synology NAS has been running for three years without a flaw. Not one. there are better options out there than a US.

Solid Air posted:

I admire all of your perserverence, but this is like listening to an addiction support therapy group. It's time to give up on the US. It doesn't work well and it never will, and it's making you miserable. 

My £250 Synology NAS has been running for three years without a flaw. Not one. there are better options out there than a US.

 

 

I wouldn't call ourselves miserable Just stubborn.

UnitiServe, when it works, is actually a brilliant UPnP server - the best one I have seen to date. So I would say it does work very well and conceptually it is a very good product.
It's been let down primarily by mechanical failures - which is odd given Naim's track record.

Let's hope that the next generation addresses all the technical issues.

Solid Air posted:

I admire all of your perserverence, but this is like listening to an addiction support therapy group. It's time to give up on the US. It doesn't work well and it never will, and it's making you miserable. 

 

 

But…but…what will I do without my US. Life will be so boring, nothing to fix, nothing to pray to.

I must admit it is a bit of a Love/Hate relationship between me an my US. When it is working, which to be fair, is the vast majority of the time, it is so simple, so intuitive, you don't even know it is there. Ripping is an absolute doddle, and no messy tagging afterwards. But when the US decides to throw a wobbly, it is infuriating. Occasionally you do wonder when it is going to have its next tantrum. Mine has been back to the Naim hospital twice, even so, I still have a soft spot for it.

nigelb posted:

Solid Air posted:

I admire all of your perserverence, but this is like listening to an addiction support therapy group. It's time to give up on the US. It doesn't work well and it never will, and it's making you miserable. 

 

 

But…but…what will I do without my US. Life will be so boring, nothing to fix, nothing to pray to.

I must admit it is a bit of a Love/Hate relationship between me an my US. When it is working, which to be fair, is the vast majority of the time, it is so simple, so intuitive, you don't even know it is there. Ripping is an absolute doddle, and no messy tagging afterwards. But when the US decides to throw a wobbly, it is infuriating. Occasionally you do wonder when it is going to have its next tantrum. Mine has been back to the Naim hospital twice, even so, I still have a soft spot for it.

Nigel - this has just promoted you to a position of a Faculty Dean at our Society.

Adam Zielinski posted:

nigelb posted:

Solid Air posted:

I admire all of your perserverence, but this is like listening to an addiction support therapy group. It's time to give up on the US. It doesn't work well and it never will, and it's making you miserable. 

 

 

But…but…what will I do without my US. Life will be so boring, nothing to fix, nothing to pray to.

I must admit it is a bit of a Love/Hate relationship between me an my US. When it is working, which to be fair, is the vast majority of the time, it is so simple, so intuitive, you don't even know it is there. Ripping is an absolute doddle, and no messy tagging afterwards. But when the US decides to throw a wobbly, it is infuriating. Occasionally you do wonder when it is going to have its next tantrum. Mine has been back to the Naim hospital twice, even so, I still have a soft spot for it.

Nigel - this has just promoted you to a position of a Faculty Dean at our Society.

Oh, the responsibility!

It is my proud duty to accept.

But see my latest theory of the new thingies coming out Thursday where I speculate the US's days are numbered (well in its current form anyway).