Advice on speakers: Kef LS50?

If you have issues with your room acoustics (and who doesn't!) you may well find that smaller speakers will be better behaved and less boomy, not least because they will produce less bass. The only way to find out what works is to get a home demo, of course - not that there's anything wrong with asking for suggestions here to build up a shortlist.

If your room is quite small, I would also consider losing the NAP100. This would free up a bigger budget for speakers, and some people prefer the sound of the Qute without a 100 - not that either approach is right or wrong, just another option to explore.

I got a pair of LS50's about 18 months ago as a stop gap until I could afford to replace a considerably larger (and more expensive) pair of floor standers.  The best compliment I can pay them is that I am still enjoying them very much and the urge to upgrade remains mercifully mild.  I will still upgrade eventually though - the one thing I do miss is the deeper bass.

My old NAP160 drives them very happily indeed so I don't think your UQ2 should have any issues in that respect.  The one caveat I would make is that I found the LS50's require a lot of breaking in and are VERY sensitive to room positioning.  So the usual advice applies:  you need to try them in your own room and really take your time finding the right position for them

If you do go with the Ls50's (I love mine and my wife loves the look) then be sure to budget in really solid stands. Makes a huge difference sound wise. Running mine with a CB NAP110 and while for certain genres (like stadium rock) they could use a bit more juice, for others (like jazz) and for late night listening they sound superb with the little vintage amp. 

I would strongly suggest that you audition them in your own room with your system.  Didn't like them in my room with UQ2 and NAP100, felt that they were a bit boomy and exaggerated the mid bass.  In my friends system and room they sound excellent.

Aren't they made in China?  I would keep looking for that reason alone.

Référence kef ls50, i simply love the speaker but not the easiest especially with unitique2.

since I got them, other cheaper option came on the market. Make sure you try/listen to dynaudio m10 or quad s1. The neat qute alpha is also a special speaker but more suited for a super uniti 

Can people kindly share what speaker cable they used. Budget between 10 and 50 pounds per metre. I want to keep it cheap if possible. Chord clearway territory but tellurium black interesting. Sorry to ask here but the owners have the right stuff. Keep well 

I thought that I would reply as I have 3x LS50's across the front sound stage and thought I could try and offer a little more help than that 'Aren't they made in China?  I would keep looking for that reason alone.' post... 

From a Naim perspective a Uniti 2 or XS would be the starting point, perhaps, but i've not experienced the NAP100. On the assumption that the NAP100 is a step up from the UQ2, you ought to be fine. Below is my experience, albeit AV bias, with the LS50's. 

These LS50's really do need to have a fair amount of power; the LS50's are a 4 ohm load (despite what the specs say) and so benefit from more power than you'd think. I demo'd them using Naim kit including a UQ2 and the LS50's were okay using that UQ2, but struggled with heavy tracks - Globalist by Muse, for instance. Also (once driven properly - long story, but most AV amps can't cut it) these speakers provide far more bass than you'd expect and are absurdly affected by positioning. Avoid the foam bungs, but please do make sure you have a decent set of stands. Avoid stuff like Custom Design FS104's that are torsionally weak and get more sturdy designs like those by Atacama (the SE range). 

I have a different amp setup, now, but I guess I'm trying to say that the LS50's need a nice big power supply to feed them. I'm planning on a 172/155 as an upgrade to the AV side of things.

Russell

Thanks Russell. I agree with most what you said. I am saving for the nap100. It adds 10 percent improvement people will tell you but in reality it does more. 

However, I believe hat the kef ls50 takes time to break in anyway. 

What intrigued is your comment about the custom design which are considered like a perfect match to the kef. Im the are expensive and the atacama mauseco 6 more into my price range. Can you please elaborate a bit

kindly share what kind of speaker cable you used please. I love tellurium but not sure I can afford it. Chord clearway ? 

Thanks again 

Having had the LS50 I think they are a fine speaker, particularly for the money.  They do like a good pair of stands with some mass to them.  They also require quite a lot of room to breath, particularly out from the back wall else the port becomes obvious and they produce too much 'bass'.

Skip posted:

Aren't they made in China?  I would keep looking for that reason alone.

As is the Muso, iPhone, iPad, iMac etc. I own, and am very happy with, all of these. What exactly is the point of your comment? 

russraff posted:

... Avoid stuff like Custom Design FS104's that are torsionally weak and get more sturdy designs like those by Atacama (the SE range). 

...

Russell

Personally I'd avoid the Atacama SE range - they aren't a patch on the Custom Design FS104's Signature (i.e. with the 100mm centre column) or Partington Super Dreadnought.

I audition these against acoustic energy reference 1's and the LS50 were far better .... quite dynamic and transparent + suprisingly refined. Go for them .... to better them you need to go to PMC20.21..... 

Gv

They're great speakers, and great looking to boot. Mine are only inches from the wall, without the bungs, and while boomy on some tracks are perfectly fabulous for most (esp jazz, acoustic, vocals, etc). I'm using a locally designed and made cast iron single post stand (available at Hawthorne Stereo). Heavy and work good.  I think the grippiness of the amp is as important as the power in order to control the bottom end. All depends on what you listen to most. My 110 is sublime with most jazz, but can feel underpowered with say stadium rock. The Ls50's can do them both, just depends on amp and room placement. 

I've got the 104 stands my self and they aren't too stable. They twist about the centre column and as the base is made from thin material with no return about the edge the support is also weak.  I sold some atacama stands when I moved house as I changed from stand mount to floorstander. The atacama were far more stable and built to a higher quality. 

Oh, speaker cable is supra ply 3.4. I had tellurium black and tested many different cables when I had an ill advised sojourn in to Cyrus separates (not to be repeated...) and tried to eliminate all manner of different issues. Basically, the supra is just as good at a fraction of the price. I couldn't tell if I had supra, chord epic or tellurium when I got a mate to swap em for me. The fact I got him to do that 'blind' test is evidence enough that I was trying too hard to hear differences. Also tried QED silver stuff that was as thick as my arm.

That's an interesting and welcome find for me about the custom design stands. The custom design are expensive and I welcome the fact the atacama Moseco 6 could be good enough. 

Unless someone propose other options. Be my guest 

please share what speaker cable you are using with kef ls50 

russraff posted:

Oh, speaker cable is supra ply 3.4. I had tellurium black and tested many different cables when I had an ill advised sojourn in to Cyrus separates (not to be repeated...) and tried to eliminate all manner of different issues. Basically, the supra is just as good at a fraction of the price. I couldn't tell if I had supra, chord epic or tellurium when I got a mate to swap em for me. The fact I got him to do that 'blind' test is evidence enough that I was trying too hard to hear differences. Also tried QED silver stuff that was as thick as my arm.

Thanks for that, very helpful 

l will have a look at supra for sure 

did you try chord clearway as heard it works quite well with naim. Just super thick and white !!!

Well, I'm not sure about those, mind. The se had a large trapezoid shaped central column that was torsionally strong and robust. Those that you want have a small diameter tube with just one support. I got my 104 for a cut price but if I were to choose again, I'd want some non circular columns to help with ridgidity and a better base (that those you've chosen do have it appears) to make the stand stable.

Err, box sections (including trapezoids) are a lot less torsionally rigid that circular tubes.  If your CD 104 signature stands weren't torsionally rigid then something was wrong with the fixing of the centre column.  Also did you try a blob of blue-tack in the centre between the speaker and the stand?

I don't think the Moseco 6 is up to the quality required (probably due to a problem with column flexure).

For those who need a medium to high mass stand who don't like the SD 104 Sig, the Partington Super Dreadnought is a close second (with most speakers, it's slightly better in the bass than the 104, but also it's usually a little less dynamic and a little more congested in the mid-range).

Huge posted:

Err, box sections (including trapezoids) are a lot less torsionally rigid that circular tubes.

The shape has nothing to do with torsionally rigidity. It's down to the value "J"

The dimensions of a given cross section determine the value "J"

First of all thanks for your replies and nice to see there's a little debate.

Seems a very good forum indeed  

Well I've bought the Kef Ls50's yesterday! ...very pleased indeed, actually got that rare hi-fi smile on very first listening.

Sorry not good at hifi speak but they are laser sharp with surprising and lovely bass, even if a little lacking to the floorstanders, it sounds leaner and meaner.
After running in as much as possible there's a definite 3D sound developing I never heard from the old studio 20's.
If they improve when run in for a few more days I'll be mightily impressed.
Bear in mind they are replacing speakers that were over two grand when came out about 15 years ago. Yes I had issues with the floorstanders in the current living environment, but even so they were easily outperformed by these kefs.

They are also on the Custom Design FS104 stands which seem pretty solid when filled, look great with the titanium Ls50's but I do think the build quality could have been higher for the price.

Must mention:
The dealer who delivered and set them up for me stated he had a "little known tip" when mounting the Kef's on stands.

...Which is...lean them back!
The front of the stand is about half inch higher than the rear!
It gives them a sort of sporty look but apparently it's definitely for sonic rather than cosmetic.
Anyone tried that?

Anyway absolutely love them.
Cheers
Jezza

Fatcat, I disagree.

J is dependant on the form of the cross section, this is particularly so for tubes.  For homogeneous bars, the value is much less dependant on form.
To obtain an accurate determination of J, the best method is finite element analysis, rather than just relying on the overall dimensions of the cross section.

Jezza posted:

First of all thanks for your replies and nice to see there's a little debate.

Seems a very good forum indeed  

Well I've bought the Kef Ls50's yesterday! ...very pleased indeed, actually got that rare hi-fi smile on very first listening.

Sorry not good at hifi speak but they are laser sharp with surprising and lovely bass, even if a little lacking to the floorstanders, it sounds leaner and meaner.
After running in as much as possible there's a definite 3D sound developing I never heard from the old studio 20's.
If they improve when run in for a few more days I'll be mightily impressed.
Bear in mind they are replacing speakers that were over two grand when came out about 15 years ago. Yes I had issues with the floorstanders in the current living environment, but even so they were easily outperformed by these kefs.

They are also on the Custom Design FS104 stands which seem pretty solid when filled, look great with the titanium Ls50's but I do think the build quality could have been higher for the price.

Must mention:
The dealer who delivered and set them up for me stated he had a "little known tip" when mounting the Kef's on stands.

...Which is...lean them back!
The front of the stand is about half inch higher than the rear!
It gives them a sort of sporty look but apparently it's definitely for sonic rather than cosmetic.
Anyone tried that?

Anyway absolutely love them.
Cheers
Jezza

Congrats on the purchase 

can you please clarify what you mean by lean them back. The custom design is supposed to be even. 

what speaker cable you used please and what is your amp. 

Crabby posted:

Jezza posted:

...

Must mention:
The dealer who delivered and set them up for me stated he had a "little known tip" when mounting the Kef's on stands.

...Which is...lean them back!
The front of the stand is about half inch higher than the rear!
It gives them a sort of sporty look but apparently it's definitely for sonic rather than cosmetic.
Anyone tried that?

Anyway absolutely love them.
Cheers
Jezza

Congrats on the purchase 

can you please clarify what you mean by lean them back. The custom design is supposed to be even. 

what speaker cable you used please and what is your amp. 

 

As they're a dual concentric design you can get the same effect by adjusting the toe-in angle.

Huge posted:

Fatcat, I disagree.

J is dependant on the form of the cross section, this is particularly so for tubes.  For homogeneous bars, the value is much less dependant on form.
To obtain an accurate determination of J, the best method is finite element analysis, rather than just relying on the overall dimensions of the cross section.

How bizarre.

 You understand the principle of finite element analysis, yet you can’t grasp, the important factor is the dimensions of particular form, not the form per se.

 Would a steel tube the size of a hypodermic needle (circular tube) be more rigid than a steel 2 foot square box section with 1 inch thick wall.