Advice on speakers: Kef LS50?

Jezza posted:

First of all thanks for your replies and nice to see there's a little debate.

Seems a very good forum indeed  

Well I've bought the Kef Ls50's yesterday! ...very pleased indeed, actually got that rare hi-fi smile on very first listening.

Sorry not good at hifi speak but they are laser sharp with surprising and lovely bass, even if a little lacking to the floorstanders, it sounds leaner and meaner.
After running in as much as possible there's a definite 3D sound developing I never heard from the old studio 20's.
If they improve when run in for a few more days I'll be mightily impressed.
Bear in mind they are replacing speakers that were over two grand when came out about 15 years ago. Yes I had issues with the floorstanders in the current living environment, but even so they were easily outperformed by these kefs.

They are also on the Custom Design FS104 stands which seem pretty solid when filled, look great with the titanium Ls50's but I do think the build quality could have been higher for the price.

Must mention:
The dealer who delivered and set them up for me stated he had a "little known tip" when mounting the Kef's on stands.

...Which is...lean them back!
The front of the stand is about half inch higher than the rear!
It gives them a sort of sporty look but apparently it's definitely for sonic rather than cosmetic.
Anyone tried that?

Anyway absolutely love them.
Cheers
Jezza

I have Guru QM10's and have them leaning back on the stands most definitely opens them up.

Well, since I spend a significant amount of time listening to my ls50's while sitting/laying on the floor due to both my late night yoga sessions (the time the room is available from the rest of the family) and the fact that there's no actual seating directly in front of the speakers, I guess Its good that I have them set up level! 

But I will try (could change the angle of the port hitting the wall).

fatcat posted:

Huge posted:

Fatcat, I disagree.

J is dependant on the form of the cross section, this is particularly so for tubes.  For homogeneous bars, the value is much less dependant on form.
To obtain an accurate determination of J, the best method is finite element analysis, rather than just relying on the overall dimensions of the cross section.

How bizarre.

 You understand the principle of finite element analysis, yet you can’t grasp, the important factor is the dimensions of particular form, not the form per se.

 Would a steel tube the size of a hypodermic needle (circular tube) be more rigid than a steel 2 foot square box section with 1 inch thick wall.

Hi Fatcat, I assume you misread my post.  You missed the bit "rather than just relying on the overall dimensions of the cross section".

Clearly the example you provided has different "overall dimensions of the cross section".
N.B. I did not say that J is independent of the overall dimensions of the cross section, only that it is dependant on the form (as well as the dimensions).

Huge posted:

Clearly the example you provided has different "overall dimensions of the cross section".
N.B. I did not say that J is independent of the overall dimensions of the cross section, only that it is dependant on the form (as well as the dimensions).

I think you did. No mention of dimensions, only form.

You wrote. "Err, box sections (including trapezoids) are a lot less torsionally rigid that circular tubes".

 Note. Your reply was a response to Russraff’s suggestion that a large trapezoid shaped central column was more torsionally strong than a small diameter tube.

Fatcat, please read the whole of my post.

When quoting me, please don't use selective editing leaving out relevant parts of my post in order to support your own view of what I wrote.

Also when I don't say something don't just assume that I'm actually stating the opposite:  If I don't state something I'm simply not saying anything about it.

He is right, mind. I was comparing a large trapezoidal section to a relatively small circular one. I could dig out my old engineering papers from when I did my apprenticeship but this may all get rather dull if we talk physics all day...

Suffice to say I can press down on the top of the custom design stands and twist the whole thing. The base flexes too. The atacama stands were rock solid (maybe even welded?) and wouldn't twist. So, unscientific but it satisfies my curiosity. 

Regarding tilting them back, I've just tried it and made the LS50's somewhat 'wider' and less direct. They are, much like Tannoy dual concentrics, madly sensitive to toe in, so experiment. I've got mine aiming at my shoulders, and that seems fine.

As I stated previously, if you specifically want a rigid stand (with its different limitations on sound quality) then the Partington Super Dreadnoughts are better than the Atacama SE.

If rigidity was the only criterion determining sound quality, then we'd all be using solid concrete castings - cheap and very rigid.

Timmo1341 posted:

Skip posted:

Aren't they made in China?  I would keep looking for that reason alone.

As is the Muso, iPhone, iPad, iMac etc. I own, and am very happy with, all of these. What exactly is the point of your comment? 

Thanks for the comment, Timmo

I own many Chinese products.  As you noted, iPad, iPhone, MacBook, MuSo, etc.  We looked at the Kef 50, noted the price, the sound, and the origin.  We bought the USA Blumenstein Thrashers for a small fraction of the KEF price.  There are dozens of comps if you look.  

My point, exactly, is that you can buy domestically sourced product for less, and buy better sounding product, and if you can, you might consider it.    Go for the Chinese version if you like the sound.    Flush your money into Chinese goods as you wish.  I prefer the opposite.  If it is available.

I decline your tone. Just look at the facts.  We did.

What a fascinating hobby this is. So many great products out there to suit different tastes and environments. I guess we all agree on the source/amp selection given the platform we're on.

@Jezza, you kindly joined my posts on Guru speakers. I tried some LS50 last week and pretty swiftly concluded they would not work for me due to the strong rear ported bass output. Even in the dealer's demo room, within 0.5m of the rear wall they were unbearable for me (and the room was large, with a very high vaulted ceiling extending to 5-6 metres above.

About 1m from the back wall they sounded good, with bass boom diminished. My observations were that they are extremely focussed with a very narrow sweet spot in which to listen - almost like having giant headphones in the room if you're in the right place. Not much joy to be had outside of this if you go off-axis at all.

The physical size of the LS50 surprised me in the flesh - they look larger than the measurements suggest, especially the depth. On the finish, I am in total agreement the Titanium grey look fantastic and modern, and I'd have chosen these had they worked for me.

Having written off the possibility of hearing some Guru's anytime soon, I ended up with ATC SCM11's, which are a little larger than I'd have ideally liked.  At the risk of being verbally flogged here, I have them sat on an Ikea storage cabinet, supported on isoacoustics studio monitor isolation stands. about 0.3 metres off the back wall and side wall across a 2.5m wide by 3.5m long room (study/home office). I'm wondering if I can fabricate, or more realistically have someone handy with a welder make for me, some custom stands that allow the top and bottom plates to reach under and over my storage cabinets. Notwithstanding my no doubt sub-optimal current setup, the SCM11's are very enjoyable. Bass is characterised by wonderful quality and texture over absolute quantity and extension. Mids and highs are crystal clear.

Glad you found something to suit you.

Skip posted:

Timmo1341 posted:

Skip posted:

Aren't they made in China?  I would keep looking for that reason alone.

As is the Muso, iPhone, iPad, iMac etc. I own, and am very happy with, all of these. What exactly is the point of your comment? 

 

Thanks for the comment, Timmo

I own many Chinese products.  As you noted, iPad, iPhone, MacBook, MuSo, etc.  We looked at the Kef 50, noted the price, the sound, and the origin.  We bought the USA Blumenstein Thrashers for a small fraction of the KEF price.  There are dozens of comps if you look.  

My point, exactly, is that you can buy domestically sourced product for less, and buy better sounding product, and if you can, you might consider it.    Go for the Chinese version if you like the sound.    Flush your money into Chinese goods as you wish.  I prefer the opposite.  If it is available.

I decline your tone. Just look at the facts.  We did.

Thanks for the reply and explanation, Skip. Sorry if my tone offended you. I was just intrigued by your apparent bias against products manufactured in China. Glad to see it doesn't extend to UK hifi!! I presume you were unable to source the equivalent of Naim and ProAc cheaper in the States?

A  little off topic but there are some excellent hifi manufactures in China and not European or American brands that have relocated there but genuine Chinese manufactures.  A couple of years ago out of curiosity I bought a Chinese valve amp and after I had it checked over for safety (it passed by the way) I used it for a year or so and sold it without loss its build was bulletproof and it sounded really nice. Excellent Quality

I am own a set of LS50 speaker and I drive it with DACV1 + NAP100 as pre & power combo.  I found the NAP100 have difficulty to bring up the sound characteristic.  When I hooked it up with NAP200 instead.  The sound is super.

Tham Kok Leong posted:

I am own a set of LS50 speaker and I drive it with DACV1 + NAP100 as pre & power combo.  I found the NAP100 have difficulty to bring up the sound characteristic.  When I hooked it up with NAP200 instead.  The sound is super.

 Thank you for this. I was thinking about this unusual combo and heard it before. Some esthetix mismatch but can live with that. 

Can you please try to discribe the main difference please versus nap100

some say the nap100 adds 10 percent but change the sonic character. Would you agree with that ? Thank you 

I know this thread hasn't been touched for a few weeks but thought I would throw my hat in the ring with a few comments.

I recently sold my beloved 15 year old Dynaudio Contour 1.3 MkIIs after a few 'domestic issues'.  Under some pressure to get something smaller I have listened to a few speakers over the past few months, including PMC Twenty.21s.

(I have listened to my Dyns side by side in the past with some very expensive speakers c. £3-4K including Vienna Acoustics and PMCs - I never took them away again thinking I was missing something; they were that good).

Anyway I listened to some LS50s the other week on the end of a cheapish Arcam system fed by Tidal and was astounded by just how good they sounded. Their clarity and drive was amazing, and they were on some cheapish stands (B&Ws) and placed somewhat ad-hoc near a rear wall.

The upshot is I have a Titanium pair on order (they look and sound the best!) to go on the end of my kit. Despite the advice to listen at home etc etc I feel pretty comfortable with my decision and absolutely confident that they will sound at least as good as the old Dynaudios they will replace.

Congratulations 

you will not regret it 

Initial impressions after 6-7 hours hooked up, not yet on decent stands...

Amazing clarity - hearing more than with my old Dynaudios.

Huge bass for size of cabinet (in my room).

Massive Sounstage.

Fast - or is that just the 202/200 combo?

Fantastic vocal rendition, making the music incredibly involving (singalong factor).

HOWEVER, Utterly ruthless with less than good recordings.

Overall pretty happy

Hi all, 

big naim announcement today which made me falter for a few hours 

i still love my qute2 and kef ls50 combination. Let's hope our current set benefit from some of the improvements

keen to know what forum friends with similar set up did recently. 

Did you upgrade ? Was thinking nap200 but cost a fortune 

What speaker cable are you  using? 

Anyone has an idea how to handle dsd and mqa? I am thinking adding a dac to qute2 via digital in? Let me know what you think

thanks in advance 

dayjay posted:

I would strongly suggest that you audition them in your own room with your system.  Didn't like them in my room with UQ2 and NAP100, felt that they were a bit boomy and exaggerated the mid bass.  In my friends system and room they sound excellent.

Just curious, what is your friend's system?

I don't own LS50's but I have auditioned them ..... I thought they were great they reminded me of LS35A on steroids .... I think they are great...ultimately they were a little too big for me and I went for PMC 21s. ..... by all a counts these speakers are so revealing that they will do justice to serious amplification .... see Hi Fi News review of Mark Levingston amp where kk and Paul miller sat jaw dropped with LS50...via this monster amp.

LS50's seem to be the marmite extreme of speakers, you love 'em or hate 'em.  I love mine and think they sound great with my NAIT 5SI / CD5 SI combo.

I used to own ls50s - sold them a few months ago for a buyers bargain and regretted it since.  Truly awesome speakers worthy of the rave reviews.

Skip posted:

Aren't they made in China?  I would keep looking for that reason alone.

Like the MU-SO...

Since when being built (or born) in a given place is automatically synonymous of 'to be avoided'? Weren't Lagers closed?

Ls50's are very room dependent. I couldn't have speakers more than a few inches from the wall in our living room. The Ls50's were magical on some things, and rendered others virtually unplayable. The RX3's I replaced them with aren't as magical, but much more forgiving and better all around-er.

That said, I got my Ls50 that my daughter knocked over back from repair. I was going to sell them, but since I would have to take such a major loss due to cosmetics, I decided to put them in an actual bookcase in the office, along with my UQ1 that I was also going to sell at a major loss, and I have to say they sound fantastic (but now what do I do with the office Mu-so?). They don't need to fill a room per se, so perfect for the UQ in that respect. Otherwise I think they demand/respect a much more powerful amp and to be away from walls.