Naim or harbeth

I'm not sure what you are actually asking ? - Naim speakers instead of Harbeth ? Whether active Naim speakers (you mention adding a Snaxo + another 250) would be better than Harbeth alternative ?

Or Neat, PMC, ATC, Kudos, B&W, Devore, Spendor, Linn, Dynaudio, ProAc, Sonus Faber, Wilson Benesch, Shahinian....

it's like asking, pasta or risotto, which should I eat tonight? Red pants or blue pants?

Firstly what a lovely sounding system you must have NAIMARK  it deserves a very special speaker personally and this is only my opinion I wouldn't go down the active route for a system like yours  for the prices you are talking about there are some truly exceptional speakers so take your time and listen to as many speakers as you can and  where ever possible demo them at home in your system. Good luck.

Hungryhalibut posted:

Or Neat, PMC, ATC, Kudos, B&W, Devore, Spendor, Linn, Dynaudio, ProAc, Sonus Faber, Wilson Benesch, Shahinian....

it's like asking, pasta or risotto, which should I eat tonight? Red pants or blue pants?

Don't eat the blue pants!

Firstly my question is related to know your opinion about sl2 compared to harbeth m40...........

Second question is....what about new harbeth shl5 plus....

hope this clarifies!

Ah ok - didn't see any mention of the SL2 and M40 in your first post hence the question. Now it's clear 

Ops...:-) 

Naimark posted:

Hello everyone,

for the same price on used market (4.000€ more or less) and considering my naim gear (here below), what are your preferences and why?

Harbeth should be better if taken stand alone but..on future the idea to add a 250.2 with snaxo could be interesting!

On top of this and limiting my budget I see also a pair of super hl5 plus (1 year old).

Just forgot to write the speakers...the comparison is between naim sl2 and harbeth m40...

and then what about shl5 plus

thanks!

What speakers have you now?

SL2s if you want a Naim system and get it properly racked, not stacked one box on another like that, you're wasting your time until you do.

On second thoughts get the Harbeths, if you can't set up the system properly SL2s will be wasted.

M40s are a nightmare to tame unless you have a large space and fast, cold, powerful, assertive amplification. SL2s are infinitely more friendly. I'd have no doubt, and have heard both well.

Naimark posted:

Hello everyone,

for the same price on used market (4.000€ more or less) and considering my naim gear (here below), what are your preferences and why?

Harbeth should be better if taken stand alone but..on future the idea to add a 250.2 with snaxo could be interesting!

On top of this and limiting my budget I see also a pair of super hl5 plus (1 year old).

Sounds like you want to join the Active Club!

DB, Graham, Ken, Tonym, Honeyball, etc....

Just to Naim a few!  And Yes the choice of Speakers aren't that great, to expensive to manufacture active speakers, when the demand is not that great. Naim doesn't produce Active Speakers anymore. But to my under standing it was:

IBL--+NBL--+SBL--+SL2--+DBL

And the last kid on the Block, the Ovators, which Naim recently stop producing.

 Back in the Day, Naim and Linn partnered together with a Legendary System, a six pack of 135's and the Isobariks.

But don't waste your time trying to get support for an active System here, or anywhere else.

All you will get is to Expensive, one good amp is better than 2 or 3 lesser amps, difficult to set up, all the racking required, etc....

And they are correct, but if you don't have anything else to do, give it a try!

I remember when I joined the Forum, a gentleman shared that he started with Snaxo 552/ 3 x 500's / Briks

Now he's upgraded to S1 Pre and Ovators, I would imagine a Kick As** System.

 But anyhow, sounds Like you have a very nice System, you can always invest 10K with racking and the Full Loom!

But remember, what makes an Active System, is the removal of the crossover located within the Speakers, and I agree with you, if you're considering Active in the future SL2s, ain't a bad choice.

Only two amps vs three amps

2K on Speakers vs 10K

I would still try listening to them, before buying, that's if you are lucky enough to find a pair.

 Just my two cents!

Allante93!

Be cheaper to buy a nice pair of headphones !!!

Since you asked a precise question (which some seem to miss): Harbeth and Naim loudspeakers (Naim ones until the Ovator line, which is somehow different in concept from the previous models) are as different as can be; and this true rather evidently, independent of tweaks, setup, cable dressing or stacking.

Harbeths are designed around controlled resonance below 100Hz (let's allow midbass to get loose far from the midrange, so the midrange won't be bothered but the listener will still have a sensation of fullness), and 'pure' rendition of the human voice.

Naim is designed around controlled interference from the bass into the mid and the treble (let's allow as little midbass is necessary to decent life-likeliness but let's radically keep it from killing speed, coherence and detail). So, it depends on what you want from your speakers in terms of closeness to truth.

I've considered Harbeths a lot of times, but have had twice SBLs, four times N-Sats, Arivas, S-400, and Credos and Allaes on demo; to my ears, you can always bring Naim speakers to also sound like other brands, but you can never make anorber brand to sound like Naim.

Best

M

Naimark posted:

Hello everyone,..........

Harbeth should be better if taken stand alone but..on future the idea to add a 250.2 with snaxo could be interesting!.........

Naimark, if you decide to go with Harbeth, Bertola has armed you with some valuable information. And, if you just can't shake that Active bug, just remember not only will you need another 250.2, snaxo, but another PS, to power the snaxo.

Preferably a SCDR, with burndy.

 Good luck!

Allante93!

I have the same CD player and amplification as you, but use an LP12 for vinyl. I have for some time had Harbeth 30.1 speakers, but having just moved house bought a pair of SBLs as I have less space and wanted to try speakers that I could put against the wall (and was intrigued to hear Naim speakers). I have no experience of active speakers.

So far my SBL experiment has proved rather frustrating. The seller instantly regretted letting his Naim system go and I agreed to let him have the SBLs back (we live nearby so the logistics weren't a problem). I have another pair of SBLs due today. So I had the SBLs for about a fortnight and because I need longer speaker cable wasn't able to get them set up in what may be the best position.

My first point would echo one made above - Harbeth speakers need space and it seems the 40.1 can be tricky in that respect. So make sure you really need a 40.1 or SHL5 for your space. I compared the SHL5 with the 30.1 at the dealer's and although the 5 was better in certain respects the dealer advised against getting them for my domestic space. 

I think Massimo has summarised well the differences between Harbeth and Naim speakers, certainly on the basis of my limited comparisons. The Harbeths are very clear, detailed and subtle. As everyone says, the midband is wonderful and singing voices are very expressive. The SBLs certainly have more bass, which remains well defined and there is great clarity and maybe more neutrality in the midband (so is 'expressiveness' an illusion?). I noticed that perhaps the Harbeths were a little sweeter in the upper registers and the SBLs maybe became a little hard with some recordings. These are very much preliminary comparisons and while my musical tastes are wide I haven't really sought to establish whether the SBLs really do rock better on something like reggae. Of necessity I am working from memory with the Harbeths and I know from past listening that this is a very unreliable way of proceeding! I should also note that I have Chord Odyssey2 speaker cable. 

Clive

Chord Odyssey is perfect if you want to remove all groove from your Naim system. 

I'm not sure whether it's an honour or an insult to be the subject of one of HH/Nigel's sarcastic comments!

Clive

That's not sarcasm, it's the truth. I used it once and it was nice and tidy to listen to, all neatly organised. After a few months I found that I wasn't enjoying the music so much, to returned to Naim cable. It wasn't so tidy, but it was a hell of a lot more enjoyable.  The Chord seems to lay out the music for you to listen to should you choose, whereas the Naim draws you in. Well, me anyway. 

Cdb posted:

I'm not sure whether it's an honour or an insult to be the subject of one of HH/Nigel's sarcastic comments!

Clive

Don't feel like the lone Ranger, but these guys are just very passionate about the Forum, real nice gents.

However, I think the OP was referring to SL2s, I insulted a gentleman by mistaking his SL2s with SBLs, so don't make the mistake I made.

Naimark Posted: 

""Firstly my question is related to know your opinion about sl2 compared to harbeth m40...........

Second question is....what about new harbeth shl5 plus....

hope this clarifies!""

I'm not familiar with none of Naim Speakers, but HH is an aficionados, when it comes to Naim gear, In fact he owns a pair of SL2s! 

Furthermore, he will correct me if mistaken about the difference between SBLs and SL2s I think the later is the superior model! 

Allante93!