On the borderline of being a mullet – but it sounds really good!

I happen to be reading up on Linn systems lately. Used with the Linn Akurate Exaktbox the speakers would not be active, rather the internal crossover of the Titans would be bypassed and the Exaktbox applies a digital crossover to reduce distortion and better optimize the speakers in that system. Info is on the Kudos site.

Very nice post and pics Marcus. Sounds like you did a lot of homework and made the best choice for your situation. I've heard the Titan 808s and they are quite impressive with Naim.  Powerful and commanding yet still very easy to sit back, relax and enjoy.

MarcusM posted:

Allante93 posted:

Nice System, if I'm not mistaken those Titans, are 30K plus USD.

Borderline Mullet!

Allante93!

Hi Allante93!

System matching is always hard. How to balance your budget and stuff like that… I started my post by explaining a bit about how I was thinking during this process…

I started out looking at “cheaper” speakers like B&W 803D3 and Focal Sopra No2 (just to mention a few highly rated ones) but felt that something was missing and that the improvement over my Audio Physic Virgo 25 was not big enough.

When I heard the Titan 808:s it was different. Everything felt just right for me and I could not find any weaknesses in the sound and presentation. Is it worth the extra cash? I like to think so…

After for example upgrading preamp from 202 -> 282 ->252 losing money on every step, my new plan is to upgrade very rarely but to go big 

My Titan 808 will stay for many years in my system, perhaps for the rest of my life. If I ever feel like upgrading my preamp my speakers are up for it... 

/Marcus  

I feel you, Nice move.  I did the same thing nearly three decades ago, Linn Karin went out, Linn XO/with Bing Card went out! 

But you know what, I still got my Briks, ain't bad, Cdx2 > 282 > HCDR > 3 x 250.2 > Fraimlite > and  the 7K a pair in 1990 Briks! 

Enjoy, 10 years from now, your system will only get better,  when you Activate those beautiful Speakers, with the S1, in your new Home! 

Enjoy your Music, the why! 

Allante93! 

MarcusM posted:

Hi Allante93!

System matching is always hard. How to balance your budget and stuff like that… I started my post by explaining a bit about how I was thinking during this process…

I started out looking at “cheaper” speakers like B&W 803D3 and Focal Sopra No2 (just to mention a few highly rated ones) but felt that something was missing and that the improvement over my Audio Physic Virgo 25 was not big enough.

When I heard the Titan 808:s it was different. Everything felt just right for me and I could not find any weaknesses in the sound and presentation. Is it worth the extra cash? I like to think so…

After for example upgrading preamp from 202 -> 282 ->252 losing money on every step, my new plan is to upgrade very rarely but to go big 

My Titan 808 will stay for many years in my system, perhaps for the rest of my life. If I ever feel like upgrading my preamp my speakers are up for it... 

/Marcus  

Nice reporting with the details slowly unraveling. Congratulations on the Kudos Titan 808. They look (massively) great. Certainly classy looking speakers. I am sure they would sound as good as they look, especially after pitting them against other costly high-end speakers.

In response to your comment on going big rather than losing money with small upgrades, it works out differently for me. Although I have upgraded from the 202/200 to the 282/250, I currently do not have intention to sell my old amps and will retain both in 2 separate systems. And I have made a commitment to stay put with the 282/250 until I kick the bucket, just like what you think of your new 808s staying in your system for the rest of your life. In the end, I do think it is just a matter of managing expectations.

Enjoy the Titan 808.

Lovely Marcus, just lovely.  Congratulations.  

Those Titans should see you through any conceivable upgrade that you choose to make in the upstream electronics, not that you really need to!

Enjoy, FT

joerand posted:

Very nice post and pics Marcus. Sounds like you did a lot of homework and made the best choice for your situation. I've heard the Titan 808s and they are quite impressive with Naim.  Powerful and commanding yet still very easy to sit back, relax and enjoy.

 

Thank you, Joerand! Glad you liked it! I tried to make an interesting read for the forum. I personally enjoy this type of posts with a lot of pictures and some describing text  

Yes, I like to believe that I was quite thorough and listened to all available alternatives within reasonable distance from where I live. I’m happy with my decision 

Your description of the sound (“Powerful and commanding yet still very easy to sit back, relax and enjoy”) is spot on! 

/Marcus

Allante93 posted:

MarcusM posted:

Allante93 posted:

Nice System, if I'm not mistaken those Titans, are 30K plus USD.

Borderline Mullet!

Allante93!

Hi Allante93!

System matching is always hard. How to balance your budget and stuff like that… I started my post by explaining a bit about how I was thinking during this process…

I started out looking at “cheaper” speakers like B&W 803D3 and Focal Sopra No2 (just to mention a few highly rated ones) but felt that something was missing and that the improvement over my Audio Physic Virgo 25 was not big enough.

When I heard the Titan 808:s it was different. Everything felt just right for me and I could not find any weaknesses in the sound and presentation. Is it worth the extra cash? I like to think so…

After for example upgrading preamp from 202 -> 282 ->252 losing money on every step, my new plan is to upgrade very rarely but to go big 

My Titan 808 will stay for many years in my system, perhaps for the rest of my life. If I ever feel like upgrading my preamp my speakers are up for it... 

/Marcus  

I feel you, Nice move.  I did the same thing nearly three decades ago, Linn Karin went out, Linn XO/with Bing Card went out! 

But you know what, I still got my Briks, ain't bad, Cdx2 > 282 > HCDR > 3 x 250.2 > Fraimlite > and  the 7K a pair in 1990 Briks! 

Enjoy, 10 years from now, your system will only get better,  when you Activate those beautiful Speakers, with the S1, in your new Home! 

 

Enjoy your Music, the why! 

Allante93! 

Good move with the Bricks, Allante93! 

S1 will never happened to me but maybe a NAC552 or its successor (if one shows up) in a few years. 

Nice system, but you have quite a heavy back-end with 3x250.2 and Bricks. I would say that your system is more of a mullet than mine 

Yes, I’m really enjoying the music 

/Marcus

Speaking of Mullets! 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFzMuO3K3ZY

Nice system and room Marcus.

ryder. posted:

MarcusM posted:

Hi Allante93!

System matching is always hard. How to balance your budget and stuff like that… I started my post by explaining a bit about how I was thinking during this process…

I started out looking at “cheaper” speakers like B&W 803D3 and Focal Sopra No2 (just to mention a few highly rated ones) but felt that something was missing and that the improvement over my Audio Physic Virgo 25 was not big enough.

When I heard the Titan 808:s it was different. Everything felt just right for me and I could not find any weaknesses in the sound and presentation. Is it worth the extra cash? I like to think so…

After for example upgrading preamp from 202 -> 282 ->252 losing money on every step, my new plan is to upgrade very rarely but to go big 

My Titan 808 will stay for many years in my system, perhaps for the rest of my life. If I ever feel like upgrading my preamp my speakers are up for it... 

/Marcus  

Nice reporting with the details slowly unraveling. Congratulations on the Kudos Titan 808. They look (massively) great. Certainly classy looking speakers. I am sure they would sound as good as they look, especially after pitting them against other costly high-end speakers.

In response to your comment on going big rather than losing money with small upgrades, it works out differently for me. Although I have upgraded from the 202/200 to the 282/250, I currently do not have intention to sell my old amps and will retain both in 2 separate systems. And I have made a commitment to stay put with the 282/250 until I kick the bucket, just like what you think of your new 808s staying in your system for the rest of your life. In the end, I do think it is just a matter of managing expectations.

Enjoy the Titan 808.

Thank you Ryder!

I like their look but I love their sound 

The build quality of the Titans are quite impressive. Feels far more solid than the other 4 I tried at home.

The B&W 803:s had a nice box with a ramp and wheels to get them in place and spikes that you could “screw down” to get them of the wheels. When I tried to get them back on the wheels the screws for the spikes broke and there were some work to get them to work again. I told the store and they told me that this was not the first time… Too bad on such expensive speakers… 

Nice that you have two so nice and potent systems in your home 

/Marcus

Foot tapper posted:

Lovely Marcus, just lovely.  Congratulations.  

Those Titans should see you through any conceivable upgrade that you choose to make in the upstream electronics, not that you really need to!

Enjoy, FT

Thank you very much, Foot Tapper!

I guess that I have to upgrade my NAP300 to DR status but now I don’t want the music to stop 

It would be hard to be without music for 4-5 weeks or how long it will take... 

From what I read in here the DR upgrade of the NAP300 is a “no brainer” so it has to be done sooner or later...

/Marcus

gary yeowell posted:

Nice system and room Marcus.

Thank you very much, Gary! 

/Marcus

Marcus -- please take a detour and tell me about your life with the Audio Physic speakers  I have thought about auditioning different speakers at home "just because" and that brand is on my short list; my local dealer sells them (so I can have an easy free in-home demo for a week), and he suggests I might like them as I enjoy very "open" sound and he thinks they pair well with Naim (I would be driving them with a SN2).  Those Virgo 25's would be at the top of my price point if not exceeding it ($14,000 for the pair).

How did you enjoy them?

Eloise posted:

b_lund posted:

Those B&W's are becoming more ugly beeing chinese now

Just to be pedantic... the 800 series are still UK produced.  (Sorry to be off topic)

 But that doesn't make them any less ugly

Congratulations Markus 

You do indeed have a beautiful system and a very nice room 

I would love to be able to  accommodate Titan 808s (and of course be able to afford some)   

MarcusM posted:

Thank you Ryder!

I like their look but I love their sound 

The build quality of the Titans are quite impressive. Feels far more solid than the other 4 I tried at home.

The B&W 803:s had a nice box with a ramp and wheels to get them in place and spikes that you could “screw down” to get them of the wheels. When I tried to get them back on the wheels the screws for the spikes broke and there were some work to get them to work again. I told the store and they told me that this was not the first time… Too bad on such expensive speakers… 

Nice that you have two so nice and potent systems in your home 

/Marcus

I am sure they would sound great since you have picked them after listening to most heavyweights in your system. At first I thought the Kudos Titans were in tiger-eye finish when I browsed through the photos but after while I figured out it was the clear plastic wrapping on the speakers that wasn't removed yet. Very elegant looking speakers indeed. Nice design to have separate enclosures for the bass and midrange/treble modules. At a retail of over £21,000 they must be something quite special~!

Like Bart, I once considered the Audio Physics Virgo 25 but scrapped the idea after a while as I don't quite favour side-firing woofers. A friend owns the Audio Physic Avantera and it sounded pretty good - clean and clinical, rather characterless. Typical German I guess.

My system is nothing compared to yours. My speakers cost just a shade over £3,000. I have to say, good move you had taken in the meticulous selection of loudspeakers. It is always my belief that the loudspeakers are the most important component in the system and the rest of the components are there to bring out the best in the speakers. In other words, don't hold your horses when it comes to the choosing the speakers that you like.

Enjoy~

MarcusM posted:

Besides B&W 803D3 and Marten Bird 2 I also tested Audiovector SR6 Avantgarde Arreté and Neat XL6 in my system at home. All really good speakers but they all had some shortcomings that I could not live with. At least not for that kind of money… 

HI Marcus - curious to know what characteristics with the Audiovector SR6 AA you could not live with? and was it the newly updated mk II or the "old" SR6AA?

Allante93 posted:

joerand posted:

I happen to be reading up on Linn systems lately. Used with the Linn Akurate Exaktbox the speakers would not be active, rather the internal crossover of the Titans would be bypassed and the Exaktbox applies a digital crossover to reduce distortion and better optimize the speakers in that system. Info is on the Kudos site.

 

Maybe I'm missing something, but what you describe there IS converting a speaker for active use.  Active vs Passive describes the crossover used: (essentially) passive is any crossover prior to amplification and active is any crossover prior to amplification.

Marcusm,

Very happy and jealous of your Titans . They look fab .

Titans just have so much going for them- easy to move because of the box design, easy to place because of port design, benign load ( I have even used mine with a Nait2 to very good effect ! ) and above all, wonderfully balanced sound presentation. I have not heard the 808's, but I'm sure they are very special. 

Nicely done and enjoy ...a 552 would really .....

ATB,

Mark

Bart posted:

Marcus -- please take a detour and tell me about your life with the Audio Physic speakers  I have thought about auditioning different speakers at home "just because" and that brand is on my short list; my local dealer sells them (so I can have an easy free in-home demo for a week), and he suggests I might like them as I enjoy very "open" sound and he thinks they pair well with Naim (I would be driving them with a SN2).  Those Virgo 25's would be at the top of my price point if not exceeding it ($14,000 for the pair).

How did you enjoy them?

Hi Bart!

Well, at the time when I got the Audio Physic Virgo 25 (which was 4 years ago) I had a different system. My system at the time was NDX, NAC202, NAP200. I think that I also had XPS DR, NAPSC and HiCap DR but are not 100% sure if I had them all. I used NACA5 and all Naim standard cables that comes with the black box. My NDX used wifi and was not connected with a Ethernet cabel.

Our combined livingroom/kitchen is 55 square meters and it’s 3,7 meter to the ceiling over the stereo. Quite a big volume to fill with sound. We have a classic Scandinavian design with wood, stone and leather and not over furnished. In other words the room is a bit at the hard side, I would say.

I have had a few dealers and distributors at my house demonstrating different things and all have said that my room is better than expected and not bad at all. They also said that the big volume is beneficial, but I don’t really know. Maybe they just tried to be nice.

At that time I got some listening fatigue when I listened to my system at higher sound level. I had a discussion with my dealer and after adding the XPS DR, NAPSC and HiCap DR things got a little better. He recommended me to maybe also look at other speakers as the next step since the speakers can “alter” the sound quite a bit. They have different sound signatures, obviously…

Just as this time (when I got the Titans) I visited a few dealers and demoed quite a lot of speakers in the price range 5-10k euro. Elac, Focal, Audiovector to name a few were to “sharp” in the higher frequencies. Ovators was a bit dull but when I heard the Virgo 25 that was something else. They had, presence, high resolution but was softer and not as sharp and edgy as some of the other I compared them to. I was a bit concerned about the side firing bass units but tried them at home. I really liked them and they worked well in my room so I ordered a pair.

They sure have a big and airy soundstage but are a bit laid back and not so “in your face” as for example Audiovector.

My Virgo 25 was actually not embarrassed when I tried Audiovector SR6AA, B&W 803D3 and Marten Bird 2 at home. Sure the other three had a bit higher resolution, more precense and were clearly better when I played very well recorded music. When I played bad recordings, heavy metal and other music with much energy in the high frequencies I actually still preferred my Audio Physic Virgo 25.

With Virgo 25 you will not get the highest resolution on the market. You will not get a speaker that goes down to 20 Hz. You will not get a speaker that can fill a very large room with bass at concert sound level. You also have to place them with some space around.

On the other hand you will get a fun, forgiving speaker (against bad recordings) with good resolution and a big and airy soundstage. They sound good at both low and high sound level and are just begging to be played. You can also listen for hours without fatigue.

They are also quite nice to look at and have a high WAF.

At the time they were the best ones that I found in the price bracket together with my system. I guess that they mask (or at least did not highlight) some weaknesses in my system.

Give them a try. You might like them

When you say they cost $14,000 for the pair, is that for Virgo 25 or Virgo 25 plus?

I never heard the “plus-version” but I’ve been told that they are a step up in performace compared to the normal Virgo 25 that I had…

I hope that you understand my description of the Virgo 25 and somehow finds it helpful 

/Marcus

Chris Dolan posted:

Congratulations Markus 

You do indeed have a beautiful system and a very nice room 

I would love to be able to  accommodate Titan 808s (and of course be able to afford some)   

Thank you Chris! 

/Marcus

ryder. posted:

MarcusM posted:

Thank you Ryder!

I like their look but I love their sound 

The build quality of the Titans are quite impressive. Feels far more solid than the other 4 I tried at home.

The B&W 803:s had a nice box with a ramp and wheels to get them in place and spikes that you could “screw down” to get them of the wheels. When I tried to get them back on the wheels the screws for the spikes broke and there were some work to get them to work again. I told the store and they told me that this was not the first time… Too bad on such expensive speakers… 

Nice that you have two so nice and potent systems in your home 

/Marcus

I am sure they would sound great since you have picked them after listening to most heavyweights in your system. At first I thought the Kudos Titans were in tiger-eye finish when I browsed through the photos but after while I figured out it was the clear plastic wrapping on the speakers that wasn't removed yet. Very elegant looking speakers indeed. Nice design to have separate enclosures for the bass and midrange/treble modules. At a retail of over £21,000 they must be something quite special~!

Like Bart, I once considered the Audio Physics Virgo 25 but scrapped the idea after a while as I don't quite favour side-firing woofers. A friend owns the Audio Physic Avantera and it sounded pretty good - clean and clinical, rather characterless. Typical German I guess.

My system is nothing compared to yours. My speakers cost just a shade over £3,000. I have to say, good move you had taken in the meticulous selection of loudspeakers. It is always my belief that the loudspeakers are the most important component in the system and the rest of the components are there to bring out the best in the speakers. In other words, don't hold your horses when it comes to the choosing the speakers that you like.

Enjoy~

 

Hi Ryder!

Yes, I believe I listened to all available candidates and the Titan 808:s stood out as clearly the best ones to me in my system.

From the beginning I was looking at something like the Sopra no2 or B&W 803D3 but as I said before in this thread, they were not good enough for me to open my wallet. The Titans on the other hand… 

Yes, I think that they are quite special… 

It’s funny that you mention the clear plastic wrapping. I must just tell you a fun thing about that:

When I had just installed the speakers my 7 year old son comes home. He said “dad have your new speakers arrived?” I said “yes” and he answered “They are soooo cool”.

I felt very happy that he also liked them!

When he went to bed that night I removed the clear plastic wrapping.

When my son woke up the next day he looked at the speakers again and said “what have you done with your speakers dad, they don’t look as cool anymore”. 

Your friend with the Audio Physic Avantera do he use Naim electronics?

The reason that I ask is that I don’t at all perceived my Virgo 25 as “clean and clinical, rather characterless”. I thought that they were warm, forgiving to bad recordings, fun to listen to and with a big and airy soundstage…

Despite the side firing woofers they were actually quite placement friendly in my room.

When it comes to distributing the hifi budget I don’t know what to believe anymore. I been very impressed with the SL cables and with Chord Ethernet cables so my world have been turned upside down a bit. Earlier when I went from NDX to NDS I was very impressed and started to believe “source first”. Then I changed preamp and was impressed by that. I thought that maybe the poweramp doesn’t make such a big difference and then I compared NAP200, NAP250.2 and NAP300…

I think that the best thing is to get a very well balanced system that works well together and without any obvious weak link. The speakers is off course also very important, which my latest journey have shown me…

/Marcus

ELOISEMEMBER
3 HOURS AGO

joerand posted:
I happen to be reading up on Linn systems lately. Used with the Linn Akurate Exaktbox the speakers would not be active, rather the internal crossover of the Titans would be bypassed and the Exaktbox applies a digital crossover to reduce distortion and better optimize the speakers in that system. Info is on the Kudos site.

Maybe I'm missing something, but what you describe there IS converting a speaker for active use. Active vs Passive describes the crossover used: (essentially) passive is any crossover prior to amplification and active is any crossover prior to amplification.

Not Quite as simple as one may think, just spoke to my Partner at Linn, and he cleared some things up! 

I was under the impression that the Exakt box was basically, an external crossover. Wrong! 

A Snaxo is Analog in and Analog out. Example, NDS > 2 x 555PS > SCDR > 2 x 300DR > Orators 600.

Speakers Still must be from Naims Crop of Speakers, IBL, NBL, SBL, SL2, DBL, and Orators. A few others will work, Briks, Credos with proper conversion.

However, Linn's Exakt works with Their Crop of Speakers, and Briks, but they reached out to B&W, Kudos, JBL, PMC, and Kef.

But one Major Difference, the Exakt does all the heavy Work, in Digital format, with all the dacs that are Necessary! 

""Linn describes its Exakt technology as “the most direct connection that’s ever been made between the artist and the listener”. Exakt keeps your music in the digital domain for as long as possible, to avoid any degradation caused by signal processing, and takes care of the digital-to-analogue conversion itself. It aims to eliminate magnitude and phase distortions caused by the crossover, drive units and speaker enclosure.""

Well's who's Technology is better? The Million Dollar question,  I don't know haven't heard The Exakt, but Naim's Snaxo's ain't bad, and Linn Aktiv with Bingo Card wasn't shabby, to say the least! 

Hope That was Helpful! 

I know, start another Post, Sorry Marcus, But I see why you ignored that Exakt Route, Especially with those Fine Speaker you've just Purchased. 

Why not use the crossover, can't be that bad @ 30K! 

Enjoy! 

Allante93! 

Wunderbaum posted:

MarcusM posted:

Besides B&W 803D3 and Marten Bird 2 I also tested Audiovector SR6 Avantgarde Arreté and Neat XL6 in my system at home. All really good speakers but they all had some shortcomings that I could not live with. At least not for that kind of money… 

HI Marcus - curious to know what characteristics with the Audiovector SR6 AA you could not live with? and was it the newly updated mk II or the "old" SR6AA?

Hi Wunderbaum!

Speakers is obviously very personal but if you ask for my opinion I will try to tell you about my “relationship” with Audiovector. Again, this is my opinion. Don’t take it personal if you own Audiovector or if it is your favorite brand. We can’t all love the same brand…

My Naim dealer only had Naim Ovators and Audiovector speakers. When I started out my Naim journey (with NDX, NAC202 and NAP200) my dealer used Audiovector Si3 at most demos. Sometimes we used Ovator if they had been used before and was hooked up.

I didn’t like either of the two brands. Si3 was too much “in your face” to me and the tremble was to sharp and edgy. The Si3 AA was the least bad but the lower models gave me a listening fatigue quite quickly. When the SR3 AA came they were a bit better still.

At one demo my dealer used SR6 Avantgarde and I said that this is the least “annoying” (to hard word) Audiovector speaker that you played for me.

Don’t get me wrong. Audiovector have some nice strengths and are really nice looking. I like their big soundstage and presence. It’s mainly the tremble that I have a hard time getting on terms with.

My dealer convinced me that the SR6AA had a better tremble that maybe could work for me. I listened to them in the store and thought that they sounded quite okay. I believe the dealer said something about that they had not been updated with the latest tremble so I guess that I listened to the “old” version and not the mkII. It was over a year ago...

I got a good deal and decided to try them at home.

With really good recordings they were quite nice. With all other recordings they were to sharp and edgy in the tremble for me with listening fatigue as a result. I could not buy a speakers that worked really well with 10% of my music collection, sounded okay with maybe 50% and were hard to listen to with the rest (40%). All in all I preferred my Audio Physic 25 although they were outclassed on very well recorded music.

Checking my listening notes I also did not find the different drivers to be very well integrated. I have written that they on some songs sounded like standmount speakers with a not very well integrated sub.

Maybe my listening room play a small role in the fact that I get listening fatigue from Audiovector speakers but the same thing happens to me in my dealers well damped and acoustically treated room…

Perhaps not very fun reading if you are an Audiovector fan but I hope you find my explanation acceptable all the same…

/Marcus

 

I noticed a lot of beautiful Naim gear in Marcus's home, haven't heard mention of Focal Speakers!

Uhmmmm.

Allante93!

 

Focal Sopra No2 was one of the candidates that I believed most in before I listened to them.

They were not possible to demo with Naim electronics but I listened to them two times with three different brand of electronics and in two different rooms (5-6h in total). Both with Devialet, a tube amp (that they really liked in the store and thought could have a similar sound character as Naim) and one quite expensive system with mono-blocks.

That store have actually started to sell Naim just a few weeks ago so now it would be possible to demo the Sopras with Naim.

Compared to some of the other speakers I listened to the Sopra No2:s was more nicely priced so I really wanted to like them. I think that I gave them a fair chance but they were not for me.

In the first room with the tube amp (and the Devialet) the bass was not well controlled and quite ”boomy” (if that is a word in English).

When driven with the expensive mono-block system in a much bigger room the bass was better but a bit on the dry side. The speakers were placed far away from the walls. Maybe they had heard the same bass-problem as I a few days before.

In both rooms the tremble was a bit sterile and sharp to my ears.

All in all I thought the Sopra No2 was a bit sterile, lifeless and hard. There was a good presence in female voices but that was all that I liked. During one demo I found myself thinking “will this song never ends” and that’s not a good sign… 

I didn’t think they showed potential enough to demo at home…

/Marcus