Serious bookshelf speakers

Just an idea Nick, but would you entertain the idea of top end headphones rather than speakers. You may end up with a less compromised solution than trying to match the MLs with a bookshelf speaker. Good luck with whichever route you take 

Russell K Red 50 are supposed to be able to work on a bookshelf, and they are very interesting speakers! I have never heard a bookshelf speaker that wasn't vastly improved by stand mounting though.... 

Another vote for the Russell Ks, and maybe listen to Kudos Super 10s.

Russell 50 need to be away from wall

Maybe ATC11 or 19, maybe Kralk BC30 ?

I rate Russell or ATC higher than Harb's, B&W's or ML, so budget is irrelevant

Yes they do..... 

Not to be the bearer of bad news, but no bookshelf speaker will match the speed of your MLs.  But you already knew that, right?

The only speaker I can think of offhand that comes close to what you're looking for is the ATC SCM19, and I have zero experience of them on a shelf.  They sounded terrific when I got to hear them. 

A couple of older speakers came to mind, recognizing that no dynamic driver will match the speed of the electrostatic panels in your MLs.

1.  ProAc Response 2 or 2s.  Best suited for a (massive) stand, but so good they could live on a bookshelf until you are able to better sort out your space.  The original R2 is happier in such a configuration, being front ported. 

2.  To go REALLY old school, try a set of Naim IBLs.  Yes, floorstanding, but fast, accurate if not terribly deep bass, and transparent in a (very) different way than the MLs. 

Bob Edwards posted:

Not to be the bearer of bad news, but no bookshelf speaker will match the speed of your MLs.  But you already knew that, right?

Yes, Bob - with a heavy heart, I knew that...

A challenge indeed. Thinking 'outside the box' with no idea if remotely possible or if they would fit: can the bass bins be detached from the ML panels, which you could then hang on the wall, any height or even orientation, even one on back of door, and seek a suitable sub that might go anywhere (bookshelf, under table, middle of floor etc). Not perfect, and I don't know how well the MLs work againt a wall as I assume they're dipoles.

A recent member of this forum upon seeminly having to remodel his financial and/or domestic arrangements at one point had just a single Quad ESL57, and swore he preferred mono listening. I don't know if that gives any ideas.

otherwise if you want the sound quality, and if you don't need the music for entertaining visitors, headphones would seem to be far more likely to get you vaguely comparable SQ, especially given  the potential budget you indicated, though might be far less, allowing a second pair for any future visitor...

nickpeacock posted:

Bob Edwards posted:

Not to be the bearer of bad news, but no bookshelf speaker will match the speed of your MLs.  But you already knew that, right?

Yes, Bob - with a heavy heart, I knew that...

I can empathize . . . Been through what it appears you're going through.

And the MLs are indeed terrific. 

Slightly out of the box thinking ... but if you HAVE to place them on bookshelves ... have you considered pro-audio such as Genelec or things like ATC25 which are designed to allow soffit mounting?

Serious bookshelf speakers need serious bookshelves as they can be very heavy....

Although why not listen to some ML Motion 15,s.

TOBYJUG posted:

Serious bookshelf speakers need serious bookshelves as they can be very heavy....

Although why not listen to some ML Motion 15,s.

@TOBYJUG - like your thinking there - had completely forgotten they existed!

Thanks, everyone for the suggestions so far - the Forum remains an incredibly useful resource and has changed my thinking for the better on many occasions. I must declare a heresy though, which is that I have got used to playing my TV/DVD through the speakers, so while headphones are a good idea (I have Sennheiser 650s) they are not, I think, the end solution for me.

TOBYJUG posted:

Serious bookshelf speakers need serious bookshelves as they can be very heavy....

Although why not listen to some ML Motion 15,s.

Rear ported I believe...

I'd like to put forward the Graham BBC LS3/5A, I've been very impressed with the whole Graham range of late and these are sweet when positioned correctly.

My only concern would be if they would work on a bookshelf as I've never heard them used in such a way, good luck on your search.

Eloise posted:

Slightly out of the box thinking ... but if you HAVE to place them on bookshelves ... have you considered pro-audio such as Genelec or things like ATC25 which are designed to allow soffit mounting?

A friend works in broadcasting. I was at his house on Monday and he was playing me some concert material via a pair of Genelecs. He will be bringging them round to my house to compare with my Focals, could be interesting!

Small, work close to the wall and not at all bad.

M

I had some neat iotas wall mounted and was looking for something with a bit more depth. I did really like the ATC SCM19, but in the end thought they were a bit too big and heavy. I then went for some Spendor D1s (Spendor supply wall mounts). Am very happy with them, a good level of depth and detail for a small speaker. Sound has improved over time, not rear ported so I guess might work for you on a shelf? Good luck!

Much to the annoyance of lots of people I'm going to say Guru Juniors (UK supply problems but you can get them imported). Brilliant speaker IMO.

KR 

Neil

Atc But,unfortunately They re cheap and people think their not worth.

wrong assumption, great and expensive bookshelves aren T even that great imho.

If you’re considering ATC, don’t rule out the SCM7, the baby of the range. They’re the only ATC speaker that qualify as bookshelf sized, and they work well within a few inches of the wall: the next one up, the SCM11, needs 30 cm. or so behind it. You won’t get deep bass out of them, but you will get fast, clean, tuneful upper bass, and they’re as dynamic as all get out. Despite the modest price, they have a thoroughbred quality to them that responds well to a quality front end, and to care and attention in setup. I’ve found that they’re very sensitive to the stands you choose, but perhaps this is common to all quality standmounters. I was spoiled by my Kans and Katans in that they came with their own stands, so I didn’t have to give that any thought; with the SCM7s, it took 3 attempts to find a set of stands that suited them. So the downside is that, if you really have to put them on a shelf, you may not hear what they’re capable of.

Good luck with the speaker search (and with the life transition ).

ATC7 is excellent. One of my favourite monitors. ( actually I prefer them over the 11s ) But you are right, tho, ATC speakers do need proper stands ( high mass ) to shine.

Here are another *book shelf* speakers: Power of analysis rivaling that of ATC speakers but Wilson monitors generally are unfussy in terms of placement and these Duette are certainly designed with lifestyle set ups in mind. They retains dynamics even at a low volume and won't flinch at high-ish SPL as the ATC.
Wilson Duette:

b_lund posted:

Russell 50 need to be away from wall

Maybe ATC11 or 19, maybe Kralk BC30 ?

I rate Russell or ATC higher than Harb's, B&W's or ML, so budget is irrelevant

At 44cm tall and almost 18 kg per speaker I am not sure the large standmount ATC19 can be really classed as book shelf speakers .. perhaps heavy duty archive shelf instead.   and they do sound best on good isolation about 60 coms off the floor with at least 20 cms behind them.

Further to Kuma above over the years with ATC speaker I have found they are hugely better when on solid/concrete floors with low mass open framed rigid stands.. such as from Something Solid or Russ Andrews.

the Russel K Red 50 is a good small speaker, with a bit of a bass lift built in... But again I have heard sounding very good on open framed rigid Something Solid stands but with good space around them... no doubt because of the reflex port and bass lift.

Is there a reason for the bookshelf stipulation? If it's space, then the typical floorstander uses similar space once you place the bookshelf on a stand. The reason I ask is that the typical quality bookshelf loudspeaker sounds pretty poor on a bookshelf...

Strongly recommend you listen to a Kudos Super 10. It may not have the liquid midrange, but it should show an interesting alternative.

Would you consider a 2nd hand pair of late SBLs? Sounds crazy I know, but they're relatively unfussy about rooms, go near the wall, have tremendous slam and attack and are as fast as most speakers out there - and in effect they're standmounts with a built-in stand.

Or maybe Totem Hawks? At around £3k, they're a small floorstander which is also relatively unfussy about room location, has a lovely midrange (for a typical speaker) and balanced overall delivery. I haven't heard Totem's Element line. They have 2 standmounts, the Ember (around £3.8k) and the Fire (£5k?). Interesting speaker in that the main drive unit is direct-coupled to the amplifier and effectively runs full range.

Frank.

As you love ES speakers what about the Magneplanar .7s or the Mini Maggie?

Frank, you are right - the issue is space, or at least the perception of it. Anything which needs to be out into the room (esp anything rear-ported) is a non-starter. For period properties (think London terraced housing) I would probably have to use alcoves either side of a fireplace; for newbuilds it depends on the configuration - either way, I haven't yet viewed anything which would sensibly house the Martin Logans...

@magicaxeman - have you heard Mini Maggies? Always been interested in them...

no point looking for speakers until you have the room but if you need to have them against the wall make sure it's a good solid one, plasterboard won't do.