Servers - a complicated matter

I have a very simple setup.

 QNAP single bay 256mb ram/1.2ghz.

Streaming WAV to SBT using Logitech software on the qnap.

The flow rate is pretty rapid. Music starts within a second of selecting a track, if I immediately remove the network cable from the SBT, music plays for about 15 seconds.

 If I remove the network cable 10 seconds into a track, music plays for a further 30 seconds.

 While all this is going on the Qnap memory usage doesn’t budge and the CPU is occasionally reaching 25% usage.

Jason posted:

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Hi Jason, indeed, it's not so much simpler network, but a simpler media server / NAS setup seems to, in my examples, provide a more consistent inter packet timing within bursts of transfers and when the data transfer is of a fast enough rate encourages the Naim streamer to use the TCP ZeroWindow flow control mechanism which seems to get the best SQ out of the Naim streamer. 

Simon

I think I'm with you, in essence a consistent flow making the streamers job easier, OK. Don't want to stray to far from the OP's original point, but would be interesting to see if that 'flow' differs when simply using a different upnp server.

Jason, I agree about not straying too far.. And I will post a dedicated thread at some point..but indeed the flow does change with different UPnP media servers/OS/NAS/platforms and I have started to  make and collect network traces that illustrate this.

Interesting Simon, thanks.

Confession time! I have to admit that the current status of my Synology NAS is an utter mess. I have dabbled with all the Packages offered by Synology using a mixture of PC and Mac. I have multiple copies of documents, photos and music splattered all over the server, but, for example, for the life of me I cannot find a satisfactory, complete copy of my photographs. The last escapade has been to use Cloud Server from my Mac which I thought was syncing my documents, music and photo folders with little or no input from myself. For days it chuntered  away telling me that three files here and two files there had been copied, but to where? 

Remember, I have dabbled with all aspects of Synology's offerings so have at least three iTunes libraries and one satisfactory complete copy of The Beatles works. After digging and digging I find that everything appears to be flowing into one folder called Cloudstation. However, Cloudstation, so far, does not reflect even my photo folder on the Mac, never mind documents or music. The log on the Mac tells me the photo files being prepped and transferred but they are not all necessarily appearing so far on the Synology NAS. 

Being stoic and lazy I have left this unsatisfactory situation to hopefully come to its own conclusion sometime this year (it really does appear to be that slow) and I will then delve amongst the guts to figure out what has actually happened. As I have backups on backups this is not yet a real problem, but for one who had a reasonably successful career in IT it is quite humiliating to be completely outplayed by Synology. 

Oh, and just to see if anyone has paid any attention to the above ramblings, is it possible that Minimserver does any preprocessing before passing the data upstream? I could check, but am lazy and don't have the product on my mess of a server at the moment.

Caveat emptor!

andarkian posted:

Oh, and just to see if anyone has paid any attention to the above ramblings, is it possible that Minimserver does any preprocessing before passing the data upstream? I could check, but am lazy and don't have the product on my mess of a server at the moment.

Caveat emptor!

 

Not sure what you mean 'pre-processing'. Minimserv should be able to transcode music from say FLAC to WAV if needed.

As to whether it strips the files of metadata before it 'serves' it to a renderer - my understanding is that it does that being a UPnP server.

Adam

andarkian posted:

 I have dabbled with all the Packages offered by Synology using a mixture of PC and Mac.

 

I, on the other hand, went a completely opposite route with my QNAP - I disabled all of it's features, thus essentially turning it into a network attached repository.
It's only purpose on my network is to store and provide music across the network to my UPnP server.
Music is being served by my UnitiServe SSD and as I back up I have installed Minimserver.

Andarkian, the DS212j is a pretty low powered NAS, suitable for serving music and being a shared storage device, but I personally wouldn't use it as a centralised file sync controller.  Considering the NAS Cloud Station Server Service instance it has to scan your network to find the versions of files to sync (via any Cloud Station Drive instances on the network), you're giving it quite a job to do.  Particularly if you have other Synology package instances also running.

Huge posted:

Andarkian, the DS212j is a pretty low powered NAS, suitable for serving music and being a shared storage device, but I personally wouldn't use it as a centralised file sync controller.  Considering the NAS Cloud Station Server Service instance it has to scan your network to find the versions of files to sync (via any Cloud Station Drive instances on the network), you're giving it quite a job to do.  Particularly if you have other Synology package instances also running.

Thanks Huge. Am afraid I got a little carried away with playing with the toys and realise that I will have to curtail my ambitions. As it happens, it all works satisfactorily in terms of serving music. Just the disgusting mess I have made.

Adam Zielinski posted:

andarkian posted:

Oh, and just to see if anyone has paid any attention to the above ramblings, is it possible that Minimserver does any preprocessing before passing the data upstream? I could check, but am lazy and don't have the product on my mess of a server at the moment.

Caveat emptor!

 

Not sure what you mean 'pre-processing'. Minimserv should be able to transcode music from say FLAC to WAV if needed.

As to whether it strips the files of metadata before it 'serves' it to a renderer - my understanding is that it does that being a UPnP server.

Adam

Just wondered if that it could do anything with the digital data before passing it up towards the DAC, but on reflection that would probably be classed as improbable or insane 

andarkian posted

Just wondered if that it could do anything with the digital data before passing it up towards the DAC

I will reply with one of my favourite quotes

'I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears...in...rain...

Adam Zielinski posted:

andarkian posted

Just wondered if that it could do anything with the digital data before passing it up towards the DAC

I will reply with one of my favourite quotes

'I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears...in...rain...

As it happens, my wife's favourite film

Adam Zielinski posted:

I will reply with one of my favourite quotes

'I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears...in...rain...

So, do you truly understand the replicants?

What, that they became and were sentient beings with a four year lifecycle?  Didn't make them particularly happy.

Then take pity on the average server that gets rebuilt and has to start from scratch every four to eight years!

But I was actually thinking of things rather deeper into their fundamental personality traits.

Huge posted:

Adam Zielinski posted:

I will reply with one of my favourite quotes

'I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears...in...rain...

So, do you truly understand the replicants?

Do you like our owl? Is it artificial? Of course....

By the by - for any Vangelis fan - the 'Blade Runner' music on vinyl is spectacular - much better than a CD version from the 90-ies.

Yes Adam, precisely the point.

There's also a Manchester based band called "Empathy Test" who took their name from the film - also right to the point.

Just listening to the soundtrack now - at work, so has to be a bit quiet

Adam Zielinski posted:

andarkian posted

Just wondered if that it could do anything with the digital data before passing it up towards the DAC

I will reply with one of my favourite quotes

'I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears...in...rain...

And what a wonderful quote that is.  Best scifi film ever

dayjay posted:

Adam Zielinski posted:

andarkian posted

Just wondered if that it could do anything with the digital data before passing it up towards the DAC

I will reply with one of my favourite quotes

'I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears...in...rain...

And what a wonderful quote that is.  Best scifi film ever

Possibly the best film ever.

feeling_zen posted:

dayjay posted:

Adam Zielinski posted:

andarkian posted

Just wondered if that it could do anything with the digital data before passing it up towards the DAC

I will reply with one of my favourite quotes

'I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears...in...rain...

And what a wonderful quote that is.  Best scifi film ever

Possibly the best film ever.

Although my wife would whole heartedly agree with yourselves, my favourite (musical) quote is :

"When you think that you have lost everything

You find out you can always lose a little more! "

Always cheers me up 

Typical Dylan never sure if this is a positive way of looking at negatives i.e. you haven't lost everything, or just a downright negative i.e. this shit can get even worse

Adam Zielinski posted:

I will reply with one of my favourite quotes

'I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears...in...rain...

Just a thought:  Is the quote from the film only, or from Philip K. Dick's "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep"?

(Which has to be one of the best book titles ever.)

Huge posted:

Adam Zielinski posted:

I will reply with one of my favourite quotes

'I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears...in...rain...

Just a thought:  Is the quote from the film only, or from Philip K. Dick's "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep"?

(Which has to be one of the best book titles ever.)

I was always under an impression Rutger Hauer improvised this monologue, which is loosely based on the script. So the question is... what inspired the script?

Hi Huge,

I read the book last week and do not remember the quote. Unless my memory is worse than I think (and it could be), it is from the film only.

Adam Zielinski posted:

Typical Dylan never sure if this is a positive way of looking at negatives i.e. you haven't lost everything, or just a downright negative i.e. this shit can get even worse

Pr, as I am currently stuck in the dentist's waiting room:

God is in his heaven 

And we all want what's his

But power and greed and corruptible seed

Seems to be be all that there is!