Servers - a complicated matter

andarkian posted:

As for Simon, I fear he is heading down to a very dark subjective place if he believes that the TCP zero window or stack or whatever has an impact on musical output. If the window, or buffer is under or overloaded the consequences would be immediate and terminal for the content, assuming that the normal package sending rules are somehow destroyed at the same time, which I seriously doubt. I do accept, of course, that if the WiFi receiver cannot handle the volume of data that would definitely also cause distortion. 

By the way, whatever Naim do with the musical content received from the ether they do a very fine job. 

Try not to fall into the trap its all about about bandwidth and buffers. The zero window command is used in particular dynamic that forces a behaviour of the TCP stack in certain scenarios - and would appear to cause an effect not wholly dissimilar to the perceived differences in FLAC decode and PCM WAV decode.

If you are in East Suffolk - you are welcome to cover over see and hear the analysis - boy i love this stuff - being an engineer its great to dispel myths and cobwebs - and there are lots of them in the pursuit - this feels like the days of when we dispelled the ripper myths a few years back. 

I can't say too much - but I know Naim are  aware of TCP behaviour on the SQ on their products as well.

Simon

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

 

Try not to fall into the trap its all about about bandwidth and buffers. The zero window command is used in particular dynamic that forces a behaviour of the TCP stack - and would appear to cause an effect not wholly dissimilar to the perceived differences in FLAC decode and PCM WAV decode.

If you are in East Suffolk - you are welcome to cover over see and hear the analysis - boy i love this stuff - being an engineer its great to dispel myths and cobwebs - and there are lots of them in the pursuit - this feels like the days of when we dispelled the ripper myths a few years back. 

I can't say too much - but I know Naim are  aware of TCP behaviour on the SQ on their products as well.

Simon

 

Simon,

You have my deepest admiration and respect. Your tenacious eye for the smallest detail confounds me. I would love to have the resources (I have the time as I am retired) to be able to 'invest' in much more upmarket gear but 3 grandchildren demanding unexpected subsidies for school fees has thwarted that ambition, as well as an unsympathetic wife. 

Aesthetically, I got away with setting up the sitting room for AV plus all the feeds for any of the ISP providers, but I cannot find a satisfactory way of mixing the AV amplification with higher end HiFi in the space available. Anyway, the thieving grandchildren are mauling my retirement stash and their parents' inheritance. I would love to see your gear but I just know it would make me cry 

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

...
being an engineer its great to dispel myths and cobwebs - and there are lots of them in the pursuit -
...

Simon

 

Being an ecologist, I should point out that spiders are an important part of the ecosystem and rely on their webs for sustenance - dispelling them is doing a disservice to the environment!   

You are so right - I got called, or should I say, screamed into the bedroom yesterday to remove a spider from the ceiling - and even though I used a large cup and thin piece of paper to scoop it and put it out of the window onto the roof as gently as I could I still felt bad.... fantastic  creatures - but I have to admit the webs do get a bit messy in the house  and most women I know just seem to freak out over them... 

Perfect technique - and easy to catch even fast moving spiders on the floor.

Have another one for you: use an old tape / casette box (preferably transparent). It makes for a perfect, one-handed spider trap

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

You are so right - I got called, or should I say, screamed into the bedroom yesterday to remove a spider from the ceiling - and even though I used a large cup and thin piece of paper to scoop it and put it out of the window onto the roof as gently as I could I still felt bad.... fantastic  creatures - but I have to admit the webs do get a bit messy in the house  and most women I know just seem to freak out over them... 

Simon, I couldn't help wondering if you could be as calm under similar circumstances in South Australia ☺️

I've been using Squeezebox 3 (Classic) and then Touch with a PC since 2005. Never had any problems. Considering how things must have evolved since then I don't see why people are still reluctant to go that route. I get much more frustrated with my smartphone than I ever did with my music server.

I stopped into the local Bang and Olufsen store on Saturday, and listened briefly to their Beolab 90 speakers / system.  I asked about servers.  None -- relies wholly on Spotify Premium, Tidal, etc.  Interesting!

(The Beolab 90 sound was not pleasant to me.)

Bart posted:

 I asked about servers.  None -- relies wholly on Spotify Premium, Tidal, etc.  Interesting!

Apart of course from the BeoSound Moment and Essence, and the earlier BeoSound 5, all of which will work with standard NAS storage to stream your music collection. And the 90s also have digital and analogue inputs (RCA/XLR), so you could even use them with a NAC-N 272, or a conventional preamp. Sounds like the salesperson needs to swot up on the product a bit more.

Andrew Everard posted:

Bart posted:

 I asked about servers.  None -- relies wholly on Spotify Premium, Tidal, etc.  Interesting!

Apart of course from the BeoSound Moment and Essence, and the earlier BeoSound 5, all of which will work with standard NAS storage to stream your music collection. And the 90s also have digital and analogue inputs (RCA/XLR), so you could even use them with a NAC-N 272, or a conventional preamp. Sounds like the salesperson needs to swot up on the product a bit more.

To be fair the sales guy said that you COULD use a server, but they seem to be promoting to customers the concept of not using a nas / server.