Yet Another Impression On The NAC 282 vs NAC 202

Hi,

exactly my impressions after a direct comparison I did some time ago. The two preamps were powered by a HCDR, and the power amp was a 250.2. 

In spite of this, at the time I opted for the 202 for mere economical reasons; and I still think that the 202 is a lovely preamp with a voice of its own, and I enjoyed it a lot with just a 200 and no NAPSC or HC; but if I were to rebuild a Naim system, the 282 would be my choice.

Enjoy yours!

M

Yes,nac282 is that much better.

how could it possibly be? Well, put a great source ,hicap Dr ad a bare minimum and a  250 on top of it. Perhaps we could go on mentioning speakers...

Failing one of the above, just one, I wouldn T feel so confortable.

Good to hear you're enjoying the 282, Ryder. I still enjoyed the 202 when I listened to it at the dealers, but decided the extra cost of the 282 was worth it. Looking forward to picking up an ex-dem one from my dealer in a couple of weeks.

Thanks Massimo. Now I understand all the talk about the NAC282 being the "entry" to the Naim world, the high-end Naim world to be exact. The quality of the NAC 282 surely sets it apart from the NAC 202 and the countless of non-Naim amplifiers I have owned. It surely sounds quite special. Personally I think one can just stop at a NAC 282 based system for good and stop thinking of going up the upgrade ladder. The NAC 282 may sound less enjoyable than say the NAC 252 or NAC 552, but it is good enough on its own.

I have just taken the NAC 202 out after half a day of listening. The NAC 282 is back in the system and glory in the music is back in place.

This 202 is still a nice preamp and sounds very much like a base 282 minus the energy and enthusiasm (of the 282). The 282 is more muscular sounding, dynamic and lifelike in its presentation when compared to the 202. If one prefers a more sedated presentation with reduced energy and drama, the 202 will be better than the 282.

282 got extraordinarily interesting when i dropped a SC2 on it, was one of those broad grin moments that you don't forget. I ran that combo into a 300 for a couple years and loved it.

Antonio, source is a Krell KPS-30i CD player. Hicap DR and 250 DR shipment is expected to arrive by end of the month. Speakers are Harbeth SHL5.

The interesting bit is I have demoed both SHL5 and SHL5 Plus at the dealers and the Plus sounded better than the SHL5 that i currently own. However, my SHL5 sounds better than the dealer's SHL5 Plus, and I owe it largely to the Naim amps and setup of my system. The dealer used old-school Quad amps and the finesse and articulation weren't as good.

Chrissu, certainly a good choice. The extra cost of the 282 is certainly worth the money. I have no regrets going with the 282. Without comparing both, one could happily live with the 202. After comparing both, the 282 is likely to be picked as the long-term keeper.

gary yeowell posted:

282 got extraordinarily interesting when i dropped a SC2 on it, was one of those broad grin moments that you don't forget. I ran that combo into a 300 for a couple years and loved it.

I am a bit late to commit to the 282 but better late than never. The NAC 282 / NAP 250DR may very well outlive me. The Hicap DR, not so sure although I am committed to stay put.

ryder. posted:

 Personally I think one can just stop at a NAC 282 based system for good and stop thinking of going up the upgrade ladder. The NAC 282 may sound less enjoyable than say the NAC 252 or NAC 552, but it is good enough on its own.

 

I would agree with that. And the 282's performance can be significantly enhanced with better PSUs. I ran mine for a while with a SCDR and it complemented nicely a 300DR.   

I'm willing to bet you change the power amp first of all once you realise how out of balance it is. The spotlit nature of the 282 means barely anyone stays with it long term. You'll faff about in denial for a bit; changing/upgrading anything but the 282 but it doesn't really sit anywhere in the hierarchy as part of an ideal system. It's sound is definitely initially impressive. It'll wear off. 

I appreciate this is not the popular perspective and there will doubtless be irate posters claiming they'd had theirs for a decade. I do think you'll find almost no-one who owns a 282 who has kept the rest of their boxes and cables unchanged for any meaningful length of time.

Well, Mike. You expected some to disagree and I will oblige. The 282 was my first Naim pre-amp and it survived several years and quite a few other black-box upgrades, rack upgrades, cable upgrades and a speaker upgrade.  I tried the 252 at length, twice, and each time preferred the 282.  If I wasn't in the fortunate position of being able to afford a 552 I would have been happy to keep the 282 so can completely understand why some people get to the 282 and stop.   In my view the 282 is the best VFM pre-amp in the Naim range (VFM being relative, of course).

I have quite literally never met anyone who has had a 282; retained it and not changed something else striving to get back the balance it removes from a system. I rather think you've proved my point immediately rather than disagreed with it!

Mike Hughes posted:

I have quite literally never met anyone who has had a 282; retained it and not changed something else striving to get back the balance it removes from a system. 

I can't disprove that assertion - but I did use an 82/Hicap/250 for many years; thinking about it the 282 didn't last very long  

My point exactly.

Dealers love the 282 because it's more immediately impressive than any other pre at the lower end. It also leads to more follow on sales as it balances with no Naim power amp long term no matter what you try. The point being that you will try, repeatedly, and fail.

"... but I loved my 282. I'd have kept it but..."

"... I just wanted more xxx..."

"It's a great pre but I was fortunate enough that xxx was available and so then..."

Could go on. Bottom line, a 282 is an end point in no Naim system and its merits are always outweighed by the need to "fix" its demerits. 

I don't find any need to fix or change my 282, it worked very well with my Nap 200, and it works even better with Nap 250 DR. I found 282/200 to be a very good combination,   I run 2 Naim systems, that is the only reason I bought a 250 DR.

I guess 552 is very expensive, so for many people end point, it is really a choice between 252 and 282, and many people choose to stay at 282 level after hearing 252.

The 282 really boogies, I don't understand the criticism of it here.

I have said for some time that i'd not bother with anything between the SN2 and the 282/SC2/300. For me the 282 only 'really' works with the Supercap. Even then, the 552 is so much better, it's best not heard.

Mike,

your point of view is very well expressed and worth consideration. For sure, the 282 is immediately impressive. If this means – or suggests – that it can lead to all the phenomena you've mentioned, I'll consider the thing carefully.

On the other hand, it also is better than a 202, and since not everybody wants to (can, agrees to, can afford to) reach 252 - let alone 552 - level, is a 282 so wrong a choice to upgrade from a 202 or SN stage?

Non-polemical question; sincere curiosity.

max

Thanks for reporting back Ryder. NAC282, HC, NAP250 has always looked liked a classic set to me from what I've read here.

C.

Taken in the spirit intended Max.

I think the 282 undoubtedly has more air and the bass is more tuneful than the 202. It's not necessarily any deeper or more accurate. What I at first took to be more detail on other instruments though later revealed itself to be a rather harsh, almost digital (in the pejorative sense) spotlit sound. There's a particular rendering of not just the leading edge but also the reverb tails. There's a de-emphasis on the notes themselves. At first this comes across as more realism and especially in comparison to a 202 but ultimately the latter has a better balance of attributes. It's not outstanding at any of them but it fits better with the various power amps and power supplies. So "better" goes from being obvious to being somewhat subjective.

You can improve it hugely with a SC but if you're going to spend that sort of money then going up to a 252 etc will prove a better match to the power amps. If you can't do that then move from a 200 to a 300 or a better source. 

So the problem is that it rarely appears a wrong choice on the surface but in terms of the long game it's the only Naim pre without a natural partner to balance its attributes and hide its demerits.

interesting points Mike, I can hear what you are referring to, yet the 282 makes AC/DC recordings really come alive 

My 202 was good with the HiCapDR, but my 282 was a lot better - it was the detail and upper frequencies as well as the groove in the music that really worked for me. I tried my SuperCapDR with my 282 but I felt it over egged the NAC and sounded a little forced albeit initially impressive (a bit like the 555PS on my CDX2 or NDX) - so I kept my HicapDR connected and kept my SCDR for when I later got a 252 which is another league all together.. as is the 552. To me the 202 and to a slightly lesser extent the 282 really appreciate the DR of the HiCap. Though from what I have heard if you use the non DR HiCap the 282 sounds better with the SuperCap.

Simon

I've had my 282/HC2/250.2 for over 10 years and counting. Go figure, but I suppose that's what you get when you generalise...

ryder. posted:

gary yeowell posted:

282 got extraordinarily interesting when i dropped a SC2 on it, was one of those broad grin moments that you don't forget. I ran that combo into a 300 for a couple years and loved it.

I am a bit late to commit to the 282 but better late than never. The NAC 282 / NAP 250DR may very well outlive me. The Hicap DR, not so sure although I am committed to stay put.

 

Glad you are enjoying your 282, it is a wonderful preamp. I used to run mine with an old Hicap and 200. I then added a SupercapDR and was rewarded a more engaging presentation, although not everyone on here would agree. Then a 250.2 replaced the 200 which took the SQ up considerably. But then I added a 250DR and blimey, this combo really took off.

I am not suggesting you spend more so soon after the expenditure on the 282 but you should be aware there is definitely more to come from your 282 in the future should you choose.

Although I have since moved on to a 252 (a whole new story), I would agree that the 282 is a fine stopping point, provided it is partnered with a 250DR and a DR power supply.

Enjoy the music.

Mike Hughes posted:

My point exactly.

Dealers love the 282 because it's more immediately impressive than any other pre at the lower end. It also leads to more follow on sales as it balances with no Naim power amp long term no matter what you try. The point being that you will try, repeatedly, and fail.

"... but I loved my 282. I'd have kept it but..."

"... I just wanted more xxx..."

"It's a great pre but I was fortunate enough that xxx was available and so then..."

Could go on. Bottom line, a 282 is an end point in no Naim system and its merits are always outweighed by the need to "fix" its demerits. 

Mike - I'm going to oblige and try and be polite - absolute tosh.    Of course some 282 users seek a 252 or 552 (I wish!!!) but I've had mine 8 years with absolutely no intention of changing.

Mike,

again thanks for the clear, objective exposition. When I am looking something on Amazon, and it has 30 five-star reviews and just three or two one-star reviews, I read the worst reviews only: in time, I have learned that they are in general much more helpful and accurate than the eulogistic ones.

To be honest, what you say of the 282 doesn't contradict my direct experience of it: it could just mean that when I have demoed it, I may have heard it more superficially than I thought. To be even more honest, I know two guys here on the forum who have had, and quickly sold, a 282 – to be more precise, the same 282. What is new to me, is the notion that the 282 doesn't have a natural partner in the power amps: I thought it was the 250 – or so it seemed to me in the olive series: 102/180, 82/250, 52/135s.

I'll listen to 282s more carefully. Thanks for your impressions.

Max