Yet Another Impression On The NAC 282 vs NAC 202

Massimo Bertola posted:

What is new to me, is the notion that the 282 doesn't have a natural partner in the power amps: I thought it was the 250 – or so it seemed to me in the olive series: 102/180, 82/250, 52/135s.

I think the the 250.2 / 250DR is still the natural power amp partner for the 282 - and that it is once you go outside of that combination that there is a lack of balance.

The 252 is too smooth and sophisticated for the 250.2, so it can sound a bit slow at times, while the 300 is too good to hide the 282's exuberance in the long term 

The result seems to be that the only really worthwhile Naim preamp is the 552.. 

M

...or the NAC S1, funds permitting 

The Strat (Fender) posted:

Mike Hughes posted:

My point exactly.

Dealers love the 282 because it's more immediately impressive than any other pre at the lower end. It also leads to more follow on sales as it balances with no Naim power amp long term no matter what you try. The point being that you will try, repeatedly, and fail.

"... but I loved my 282. I'd have kept it but..."

"... I just wanted more xxx..."

Mike - I'm going to oblige and try and be polite - absolute tosh.    Of course some 282 users seek a 252 or 552 (I wish!!!) but I've had mine 8 years with absolutely no intention of changing.

I note you've avoided saying what else you've changed over that period. And you will have won't you! 

Mike Hughes posted:

I'm willing to bet you change the power amp first of all once you realise how out of balance it is. The spotlit nature of the 282 means barely anyone stays with it long term. You'll faff about in denial for a bit; changing/upgrading anything but the 282 but it doesn't really sit anywhere in the hierarchy as part of an ideal system. It's sound is definitely initially impressive. It'll wear off. 

I appreciate this is not the popular perspective and there will doubtless be irate posters claiming they'd had theirs for a decade. I do think you'll find almost no-one who owns a 282 who has kept the rest of their boxes and cables unchanged for any meaningful length of time.

 

I can understand some of the criticism with a NAC 282 based system, though I agree the 282's exuberance may not be to everyone's liking. When partnered with the rather smooth and laidback Harbeth speakers that I own, the qualities of the 282 are surely appreciated.

Though I can understand the appeal of the NAC 202 / NAP 200. Although the 202 may not sound as dynamic, exuberant or enthusiastic as the 282, it still sounds very much like a base 282. It's just that the 202 plays music with less drama without the spotlit nature of the 282. Some who appreciate a less dramatic presentation may regard the 202 as being a more neutral (or better) preamp.

Although I now favour the NAC 282, I will likely still retain the NAC 202 / NAP 200 for a secondary system. The 202/200 are still good amps. I can trade the 202/200 for another non-Naim integrated such as the Exposure 3010S2-D just for the sake of wanting a different sound but somehow I think I am stuck with the Naim. Brand loyalty also plays a part, not only with the Naim but the Harbeth loudspeakers that I also own.

nigelb posted:

Glad you are enjoying your 282, it is a wonderful preamp. I used to run mine with an old Hicap and 200. I then added a SupercapDR and was rewarded a more engaging presentation, although not everyone on here would agree. Then a 250.2 replaced the 200 which took the SQ up considerably. But then I added a 250DR and blimey, this combo really took off.

I am not suggesting you spend more so soon after the expenditure on the 282 but you should be aware there is definitely more to come from your 282 in the future should you choose.

Although I have since moved on to a 252 (a whole new story), I would agree that the 282 is a fine stopping point, provided it is partnered with a 250DR and a DR power supply.

Enjoy the music.

Thanks for the post. I am glad you find the 252 to be more enjoyable than the 282. I presume your experience is the same with my experience when I went from the 202 to the 282.

I am surely stopping at the 282, no more going up the ladder. Just to clarify, I am expecting the 250 Dr and Hicap DR shipment to arrive by end of the month. I am surely hoping for greater things to come after spending the money for the whole lot of Naim amps. This is my biggest expenditure in hifi history (in a single purchase) so far. My initial plan was to just purchase an Exposure 3010S2-D but I ended up with the NAC 282, NAP 250 DR and Hicap DR.

ryder,

you've mentioned the Exposure 3010 twice: I happened to listen to one in the same store where I usually demo all the gear, and for me the experience is, in a nutshell, what Mark has written of the 282. At first I was very impressed (it was connected to a pair of Harbeth M30.1s, with a rega Saturn-R or a CD5XS as source, I don't remember) but in some minutes its assertiveness became a little tiring, everything was a little too upfront. It undoubtedly made the civilized Harbeths a little more 'interesting', but I could never think of trading a 202/200 combo for one. My impressions only.

Best

M

I fondly remember it's predecessor, my Exposure X, with LP12 and Kans. The Ian Rankin years.

Chris

Massimo Bertola posted:

ryder,

you've mentioned the Exposure 3010 twice: I happened to listen to one in the same store where I usually demo all the gear, and for me the experience is, in a nutshell, what Mark has written of the 282. At first I was very impressed (it was connected to a pair of Harbeth M30.1s, with a rega Saturn-R or a CD5XS as source, I don't remember) but in some minutes its assertiveness became a little tiring, everything was a little too upfront. It undoubtedly made the civilized Harbeths a little more 'interesting', but I could never think of trading a 202/200 combo for one. My impressions only.

Best

M

Thanks for the information Max. Certainly useful. Guess I cannot escape retaining two Naim systems. I too suspect the Exposure 3010S2-D will not have the same level of refinement as the 202/200 separates. It's just the curiosity of trying out new gear especially with rave reviews (usually good reviews with most new gear).

I hope your Sonus Faber Concertino and Rega Brio-R are doing fine.

Christopher_M posted:

Thanks for reporting back Ryder. NAC282, HC, NAP250 has always looked liked a classic set to me from what I've read here.

C.

No problem Chris. It does sound almost like a classic right now although the NAC 282 is currently still on the NAP 200. I can now imagine all the talk about the NAC 282, NAP 250 and Hicap being a classic system. The NAC 282 is very balanced and accomplished at its price point. My speakers are now performing at a high level with the 282.

Mike Hughes posted:

The Strat (Fender) posted:

Mike Hughes posted:

My point exactly.

Dealers love the 282 because it's more immediately impressive than any other pre at the lower end. It also leads to more follow on sales as it balances with no Naim power amp long term no matter what you try. The point being that you will try, repeatedly, and fail.

"... but I loved my 282. I'd have kept it but..."

"... I just wanted more xxx..."

Mike - I'm going to oblige and try and be polite - absolute tosh.    Of course some 282 users seek a 252 or 552 (I wish!!!) but I've had mine 8 years with absolutely no intention of changing.

I note you've avoided saying what else you've changed over that period. And you will have won't you! 

Less than you think - CDS3 for CDX2 and 250DR   Everything else as was - original HC, XPS. And speakers although over the next few months the latter could be on the move!!

Regards,

Lindsay

Christopher_M posted:

I fondly remember it's predecessor, my Exposure X, with LP12 and Kans. The Ian Rankin years.

I vaguely recall Ian Rankin comparing the Exposure X to a Linn Intek. I wonder what system he uses now?

Lindsay - I guess that the CDS3 and the 250DR would give you the balance needed for the uncouth little devil 

Well, I got my head chewed off, for posting a garbage statement that suggested the 202 and 282 were similar, the only difference was ability to upgrade by adding PS's.  Made since to me, but what do I know! 

552~ Naims best PS

252~ Supercap

282~ Hi Cap/Supercap, hence tons of post comparing 282 vs 252

202~ power amp/Hi cap  I don't think it can accept an SC , at least utilize it dual railing or two HC, like the 282! 

""RICHARD DANEADMINISTRATOR

1/19/16 3:47 PM

The difference between a NAC202 and NAC282?  Well, apart from looking quite different inside and out, there's a simple answer Allante - just listen.""

Well, I took my medicine, and what the heck, I own an 282! 

But check out the following System, one would think these guys would put together a decent Balanced System at the CES show! 

Naim 555 very high end CD player (CES 2007)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFzMuO3K3ZY

Well, If it's good enough for Naim's Top CD, and a trio of 250.2s  Ran Active with DBLs, it should work fine with MOST Systems!

Just my two cents.

Allante93! 

The 282 is a great pre-amp. It does have one issue. You can eventually add a SuperCap. Once you do that you may as well get a 252. The price differential is not huge. The sound differential is. It's called the natural upgrade path. It remains optional.

Mike Hughes posted:

I have quite literally never met anyone who has had a 282; retained it and not changed something else striving to get back the balance it removes from a system. I rather think you've proved my point immediately rather than disagreed with it!

I tend to agree with Mike. My 282 love affair was a short lived one. It sounded impressive with a SuperCap DR, but never really settled down. So I moved on...

Adam Zielinski posted:

Mike Hughes posted:

I have quite literally never met anyone who has had a 282; retained it and not changed something else striving to get back the balance it removes from a system. I rather think you've proved my point immediately rather than disagreed with it!

I tend to agree with Mike. My 282 love affair was a short lived one. It sounded impressive with a SuperCap DR, but never really settled down. So I moved on...

282 vs 202, it's no surprise that most will opt for the 282. In fact, I'm surprised, not that many post pitting 282 against a 202. On the other end of the spectrum, not that many post pitting a 552 against a 252.

So Adam, perhaps it's time to move on, don't worry I will gladly take that SCDR off your hands.

Take the big leap 552! LOL.....

Allante93!

Allante93 posted:

282 vs 202, it's no surprise that most will opt for the 282. In fact, I'm surprised, not that many post pitting 282 against a 202. On the other end of the spectrum, not that many post pitting a 552 against a 252.

So Adam, perhaps it's time to move on, don't worry I will gladly take that SCDR off your hands.

Take the big leap 552! LOL.....

Allante93!

I think I may be in the minority who will eventually have both NAC 202 / NAP 200 and NAC 282 / NAP 250 (does anyone here who own these amps in two separate systems?). Somehow I have an attachment toward most good things that have lived with me for a considerable period of time, in this case the 202/200. It has given me joy for the past 5 or 6 years, hence the decision to retain the system although the 282/250 will eventually surpass it in areas of musicality.

I think I will be able to settle with ANY system from Naim, be it the 202, 282 and 252 unlike some who can only accept a certain sort of presentation from either one of these amps. I believe each and every one of these systems will sound special or unique in their own ways.

Adam Zielinski posted:

Mike Hughes posted:

I have quite literally never met anyone who has had a 282; retained it and not changed something else striving to get back the balance it removes from a system. I rather think you've proved my point immediately rather than disagreed with it!

I tend to agree with Mike. My 282 love affair was a short lived one. It sounded impressive with a SuperCap DR, but never really settled down. So I moved on...

I am glad the 252 worked out for you, and I am sure it will sound remarkable. The Supercap (on the 282) will likely pave the way for the 252, so it isn't a surprise that most Supercap owners who have the 282 will eventually move up to the 252.

Enjoy~

Allante93 posted:

Adam Zielinski posted:

Mike Hughes posted:

I have quite literally never met anyone who has had a 282; retained it and not changed something else striving to get back the balance it removes from a system. I rather think you've proved my point immediately rather than disagreed with it!

I tend to agree with Mike. My 282 love affair was a short lived one. It sounded impressive with a SuperCap DR, but never really settled down. So I moved on...

282 vs 202, it's no surprise that most will opt for the 282. In fact, I'm surprised, not that many post pitting 282 against a 202. On the other end of the spectrum, not that many post pitting a 552 against a 252.

So Adam, perhaps it's time to move on, don't worry I will gladly take that SCDR off your hands.

Take the big leap 552! LOL.....

Allante93!

 

 

That is indeed a planned upgrade path - but fortunately or unfortunately I have not planned a date That lottery win keeps on eluding me 

ryder. posted:

Adam Zielinski posted:

Mike Hughes posted:

I have quite literally never met anyone who has had a 282; retained it and not changed something else striving to get back the balance it removes from a system. I rather think you've proved my point immediately rather than disagreed with it!

I tend to agree with Mike. My 282 love affair was a short lived one. It sounded impressive with a SuperCap DR, but never really settled down. So I moved on...

I am glad the 252 worked out for you, and I am sure it will sound remarkable. The Supercap (on the 282) will likely pave the way for the 252, so it isn't a surprise that most Supercap owners who have the 282 will eventually move up to the 252.

Enjoy~

It did - it took a while for a whole system to settle down. It sounds so great now, I have no inclination to touch it or change it for a fear of upsetting the sound  it makes 

Adam Zielinski posted:

ryder. posted:

Adam Zielinski posted:

Mike Hughes posted:

I have quite literally never met anyone who has had a 282; retained it and not changed something else striving to get back the balance it removes from a system. I rather think you've proved my point immediately rather than disagreed with it!

I tend to agree with Mike. My 282 love affair was a short lived one. It sounded impressive with a SuperCap DR, but never really settled down. So I moved on...

I am glad the 252 worked out for you, and I am sure it will sound remarkable. The Supercap (on the 282) will likely pave the way for the 252, so it isn't a surprise that most Supercap owners who have the 282 will eventually move up to the 252.

Enjoy~

It did - it took a while for a whole system to settle down. It sounds so great now, I have no inclination to touch it or change it for a fear of upsetting the sound  it makes 

Adam, that'll be the replacement of the MA links with....err......some other ones. 

nigelb posted:

Adam Zielinski posted:

ryder. posted:

Adam Zielinski posted:

Mike Hughes posted:

I have quite literally never met anyone who has had a 282; retained it and not changed something else striving to get back the balance it removes from a system. I rather think you've proved my point immediately rather than disagreed with it!

I tend to agree with Mike. My 282 love affair was a short lived one. It sounded impressive with a SuperCap DR, but never really settled down. So I moved on...

I am glad the 252 worked out for you, and I am sure it will sound remarkable. The Supercap (on the 282) will likely pave the way for the 252, so it isn't a surprise that most Supercap owners who have the 282 will eventually move up to the 252.

Enjoy~

It did - it took a while for a whole system to settle down. It sounds so great now, I have no inclination to touch it or change it for a fear of upsetting the sound  it makes 

Adam, that'll be the replacement of the MA links with....err......some other ones. 

Absolutely Nigel!