NAC 272 vs NAC 282 : What Is Naim's Stand With Respect To Sound Quality?

I should hope so too! 

Ryder -

I've not had a chance to compare a 272 with a 282 in the same system.  That said, I would expect the 282 to be *capable* of handily outperforming the preamp section of the 272.  (Assuming proper setup - the 282/82 are *extremely* sensitive to setup.)

Here's why: the 282, like the 82 before it, is very similar to the 252/52; the major difference being that the 252/52 require a Supercap to function while the 282/82 can use anything from the power rail in a NAP 155xs all the way up to a Supercap.  When powered by an amp, one is not hearing anything near how good the 282 can be.  Conversely, when powered by a Supercap, you have a preamp that is within shouting distance of the 252 - the problem being that the cost is also very near that of a 252/Supercap, and the 252 uses all the power rails provided by the Supercap, while the 282 does not.  The 272, with its built-in supply, comes out of the box ready to play at a high level, and with an XPS2 it will rise higher still. 

What I *think *Naim "says" via pricing is simply that the 282 is capable of a higher performance level as a preamp than is the 272, given the high quality of the 272s streaming section. 

Hi lots of interesting things said here .... at the end of the day it is how it performs in the sense of conveying music .... the only way is an auditon with a very sensative amp say a nap300dr. I recon it will be a close run thing as long as 272 has a good separate psu such as xps2dr or 555ps. The statement stepped attenuator .... in the 272 has to be a big plus point.

A lot to hope for, but if they offered this as a factory retrofit on the old amps I'd jump.

An empty CD costs $.02. A music cd - say $5-$15. Put Photoshop on the same CD (well you can't anymore, but you get the idea..) and it's at $149.

It's not about the raw material. You're paying for R&D, manufacturing, and to keep the employees paid so they can design the next gen product.

The cost of a painting is not the canvas + paint.

I am rather surprised that some are quite upset with this post but I appreciate those who have responded. It appears that Naim may not be responding to my questions, or they are too busy and haven't noticed.

I am aware that as long as one derives enjoyment from the system, everything else does not matter, and I appreciate people are enjoying the 272/250 DR as much as the 282/250 DR, or the 252/300 DR. I also know that sound quality is subjective as there will be folks who prefer or derive more musical enjoyment from a lesser gear (although there is a hierarchy in Naim that usually correlates to both price and sound quality). Hence I have rephrased my question by asking about hierarchy, rather than sound quality.

I guess it may not be possible to compare the 272 to the 282 since the 272 is a streaming preamp whilst the 282 is a standalone preamp? All I want to know is where does the 272 stand when compared to the 282. We all know that there is a hierarchy in Naim with the Statement being the top-of-the-line, followed by the NAC 552 down to the NAC 252, NAC 282 and NAC 202. If it is not possible to include the 272 in the hierarchy since it is a streaming preamp, I would be happy to accept the confirmation from anyone, particularly Naim since they are in the best position to advise being the designer. It's just a simple question, nothing complicated.

As to the pricing of both 272 and 282, David Dever made a good point. Posts such as these are something that I appreciate, and they can actually come from Naim. The assembly of the 282 can be very different from the 272 and this may have influenced the price of the units. There may be other factors that I am not aware of. The Harbeth designer have once explained to a question of similar nature.  The Harbeth M30 is costlier to manufacture than the C7ES3 as the assembly of the cabinet is different. More intricate work and labour of the cabinet's assembly apart from the more expensive tweeter. I am expecting this sort of answer from Naim re. the 282 vs 272.

But Ryder isn't it just what it is?  I repeat they are different products. There can only be a hierarchy when the products are fulfilling the same function? The Harbeth example you are quoting are simply speakers. Where does the SN2 stand in relation to the 202/200?  Where does the Superuniti stand in relation to the NDX or SN2?  Where does the Streaming elements in the 172/272 stand compared with the ND5XS/CD5XS?  Where does a BMW  3 Series saloon stand compared with a BMWX2? I don't see how Naim could answer these questions .  For me it's enough that you have a range of products with options - you choose.

Regards,

Lindsay

Is the X2 available Lindsay?

Off topic now Chris!!!! Not sure - when I was last in a BMW dealers (back March) it was being discussed.

L

PS:  However, Kudos also manufacture an X2 - not sure how it would compare mind.   I'll get me coat.................

The Strat (Fender) posted:

Where does the SN2 stand in relation to the 202/200? 

In my ears, somewhat above. The SN communicates in ways that the 202/200 does not.  Which just goes to reinforce that other people's opinions, let alone personal experiences are worthless when applied outside their own situations, and if you can't do an audition you might want to seriously consider buying equipment that you can actually listen to before buying. If that doesn't include Naim, so be it. 

Very good point Harry, there is no substitute for one's own ears. 

But Naims Website is very informative, Which Naim is for you!  If one decides that wish to partake in the world of Naim! 

Step One all in one System

Step Two all in one Player

Step Three Integrated Player (SN 2)

OP's question 272?  a New animal where does it fit in Naim's  Hierarchy  

Step Four Marque Separates ( 202, 282, 252,552 )

Step Five The Statement

The OP Posted:

"I would be happy to accept the confirmation from anyone, particularly Naim since they are in the best position to advise being the designer. It's just a simple question, nothing complicated."

Well, I would guess that Naims Philosophy revolves around decoupled units. Hence, Naim's reply might be, that their Marque Separates would outperform their integrated players ! 

That's the problem here, everyone's testing environment is different, not to mention our ears. 

So I would imagine, Naim using their testing environment, and their ears, would give the advantage to a 202/HCDR/200  over an SN 2/HCDR/200.

But that is all part of their upgrade System!  Start off with SN 2, Then disable the power amp, next, power the SN pre amp section with PS, etc.....

Well, I think Naim would say that the 272 is right on the Heels of 282, but more important Individuals, who have devoted their lives to hi fi, and lived with 202s, 252, and  as of late, 272s, have spoken, and the vast majority agrees with Naim's philosophical approach of decoupled units. 

Where less is Best!  Perhaps an 2 box 500/300 might outperform an 1 box 250, etc........

But that's not putting a 272 down, for the price and what it can do, it's a  Heck of a Product. Just Ask HH, or Simon! 

Personally, I tend to agree, with HH, that the 272 is right on the heels of an 282, so close, that it really doesn't matter, mind you I haven't heard an 272 ! 

But if it sounds anything like an 282, it can't be  bad! 

Just my two cents! 

Enjoy you Music, The Why! 

Allante93! 

Leaning back towards BMW parallels: I’ve just bought something thirsty and dirty and as our second car we are going to chop my wife’s car in for something relatively cleaner. I looked over a number of i3s. I read all the glowing road tests, watched the videos and started talking seriously to my nearest iCar agent (who is not my usual BMW dealer).  Such was the overwhelming tide of praise for the car that test driving one didn’t seem anything more than a brief formality.  Then I drive one. It was bloody awful.  I’m the first person I’ve ever met (out of a number now approaching three figures) who thinks it’s a poorly packaged, uncomfortable badge with a rather crappy car stuck to the back of it.

BMW or any number of delighted i3 owners failed to convey this to me.

Just saying is all

Oh no Harry! Was the range extender engine chugging away in the back of the i3 like a large Taiwanese lawn mower engine (which it almost is, no kidding!)

Chug, chug, FT

I was loaned an i3 for a few hours while my grown up BMW was in for service  (I had expressed an interest re the techie stuff)    Harry,  you are so right, it is not a BMW.  

..... but they do serve a different purpose - and the cars 

We drove an i3 early on in our electric car interests.  Left it at the dealer.  Then a Nissan Leaf.  Probably was a little worse.  We settled on a Tesla Model S.  It's my daily driver and we love it.

Sorry to drag it sideways. I will stop my contribution to the thread hijack by just  saying  that I'd love a Model S. 

I'm shutting up now.

Well, I was actually quite interested to see how this thread would pan out, and had wondered myself quite how a £3.3k streamer, DAC and Preamp could rival a dedicated pre amp at over £1k more, not including the the need for an external power supply.  The 272 may well be fantastic, perhaps even better than a 282, but if that is so, you'd have to wonder about the future of the 282, or at least its price tag.

When it come to the BMW i3, I've never driven one, but when I look at one, I see the below (subject to the picture insertion working).  Strange place to take inspiration from.  And...er.........no.

 

 

 

Hungryhalibut posted:

 

 

I have to say I agree  whole heartedly with joerand there does seem to be a core of forum members who repeatedly again and again and again and again come out with the same old tired comparisons the same old rhetoric and yes self justification has to be a big part of it and also whatever the online equivalent of liking the sound of your own voice is some people seem to spend more time talking about their systems than listening to them.  

Again and Again and Again and Again and Again and........

ZZzzzz...

ryder. posted:

The NAC 272 retails at £3,300 while the NAC 282 retails at £4,395 inclusive of NAPSC. Without the NAPSC, the NAC 282 costs £4,045 which is still quite a bit higher than the NAC 272.

Disregarding the fact that the NAC 272 is a newer preamp with more functionality or features, what is Naim's stand on both NAC 272 and NAC 282 solely on the aspects of sound quality? So far the impressions from owners or forum members who have compared both seem to be inconclusive. Some thought both sounded fairly similar, some thought the 282 sounded better, some felt the 272 sounded better.

As we all know, the term *better* is rather vague and may not be all that useful as the difference in sound quality can be seen as a preference of the person who favours a particular sound presentation. Having said that, if in accordance with Naim's hierarchy, where does the 272 stand next to the 282 (solely in sound quality and not streaming features).

Any sort of input (ideally from Naim) would be most appreciated .

 

*as an edit, does the NAC 272 sound quite similar to the NAC 282 as some might have reported?

The current 282 retail price derives from a 82 priced from back then

what a 82 price had then,.. became 282 with each years price raise april

272 is retail priced for market reasons

Naim retail prices has little to refer to their manufacture cost

Old analoq Naim Nac preamplifiers never had PSU onboard, hence PSU in poweramp or separate PSU

b_lund posted:

 

 

 

Hungryhalibut posted:

 

 

I have to say I agree  whole heartedly with joerand there does seem to be a core of forum members who repeatedly again and again and again and again come out with the same old tired comparisons the same old rhetoric and yes self justification has to be a big part of it and also whatever the online equivalent of liking the sound of your own voice is some people seem to spend more time talking about their systems than listening to them.  

Again and Again and Again and Again and Again and........

ZZzzzz...

Well, I don't like BMWs, and I have never bought a new car, and never will - too much depreciation in the first year or so. There, that's not been said yet.

Regarding repeating, entirely valid if it is a different thread, or if it seems thatbwhat was said has been misunderstood. And talking of people liking the sound of their own voice, there are plenty of people who seem disposed to make comments, often derogatory, when they have nothing to contribute seriously... 

Now if Naim produced a micro 272/250DR for BMW...................

The Strat (Fender) posted:

Now if Naim produced a micro 272/250DR for BMW............................

If Naim produced an  i-N272, now that  would be a way forward.  Look at the market, i-pod, i-pad, i-phone, I, as in mainly me, surely that's the way forward.  Why wasn't the MM named the i-mini?  .......cancel that, I get it.

Harry posted:

Leaning back towards BMW parallels: I’ve just bought something thirsty and dirty and as our second car we are going to chop my wife’s car in for something relatively cleaner. I looked over a number of i3s. I read all the glowing road tests, watched the videos and started talking seriously to my nearest iCar agent (who is not my usual BMW dealer).  Such was the overwhelming tide of praise for the car that test driving one didn’t seem anything more than a brief formality.  Then I drive one. It was bloody awful.  I’m the first person I’ve ever met (out of a number now approaching three figures) who thinks it’s a poorly packaged, uncomfortable badge with a rather crappy car stuck to the back of it.

BMW or any number of delighted i3 owners failed to convey this to me.

Just saying is all

Yeh Harry, I know what you saying, about 23 years ago, over the age of 40, never owned a Cadillac, wanted to own one while I could still bend over and get out and in with no problem. It was the New North star techology, 32 valve 8 cylinder engine. Reach speeds over 150 miles per hour, Msrp 65K USD in 1993.

Well, I was young, working plenty of overtime, but not stupid enough to pay 65K, but 53K wasn't the smartest investment I made for a 2nd hand Vehicle.

 No test drive, just told the salesman what I wanted, color, and mileage.

 You know what, 22 years later she's still purring!

Not always, but usually, their is a relationship between price and quality!

Just saying!

Allante93!  

(the last year Cadillac manufactured them.)

The Statement of the Cadillacs in that era.