Ndx or 272

Unless the box count is causing you a headache then then NDX is the way to go (or even higher). The 272 is about one of the best ways of scaling down on box count you can do but as a pre-amp, it is not near a (serviced) 52/SC.

If you move more to streaming over time, the XPS may be better on the NDX (just make sure it is not an Olive XPS as it is not compatible).

There are those on the forum who have made more drastic moves from more recent high-end pre amps to a 272 and been 100% happy. Though again, box count reduction played a large role also.

But not an olive XPS on an NDX, there's a warning on its product page, there isn't on the 272s but one to check with customer service.

NDX was a clear winner for me. 

What you do really depends on your budget and your attitude to box count. To equal or surpass the CDS2 you are looking at an NDS with XPSDR or, even better, a 555PS. But do you want new stuff with olive? Do you want to keep the CDS2/XPS (you'll get about £1,500 for it)? Can you afford the NDS? A 272 with XPSDR will get you a lot of the way for a lot less and with two rather than four boxes. But my 'a lot of the way' might be your 'this sounds rubbish compared to my CDS2 and 52', so as ever, it's a case of trying some options. 

I would agree with the above, the NDS with XPSDR or 555PS would be my punt if you want to improve on your CDS2

having said that I had a 52 with SC into 135 x 2 and now run 272/XPSDR into 300DR I may go for 555PS at some point but I am very happy with what my current system does.

As always let your ears be the deciding factor as everyone will have a different take on what works best for THEM.

Good luck with your search and let us know where you end up.

ATB 

272/250 is the way to go.

Folks

Many thanks for your feedback seems to be mixed views.

my longer term plan is to move away from the Cds2 to streaming using Tidal. Then to move to a 250 DR as I head into retirement. Then add an XPS2 last. Not sure if that changes the advice?

Moving for 52 to 272 with your kit

is a hifi 'suicide'.

Best bet is getting NDX ,if NDS is out of budget.

Windy,

I've never heard a CDS2 but if it's performance approaches that of the CDS3 then its a difficult to follow.  And on top of that the 52 is a very high end pre. Of course you have to listen for yourself but I would say the best way if reducing the box count isn't your intent is to plump for a NDS/XPS(DR) or 555.

If reducing boxes is part of your intent perhaps 272/555 might be an option but, and at the risk of starting idle speculation once again, it might be worth waiting to see if Naim do introduce a higher level (372??) streamer/pre?

Good luck,

Lindsay

Wind in ears posted:

my longer term plan is to move away from the Cds2 to streaming using Tidal

...........  thats hifi "suicide" as well.   Naim streamers are high res capable, Tidal is not high res & will at best will not get close to your CDS2 in pure SQ  terms.   If you are really only intending to stream Tidal,  better to get a SBT or similar.   

I use an NDX with 52/135s and absolutely love it. I've bought so much more music since buying the NDX which speaks volumes I'd say. Don't currently have a PS on it either so room for more improvement hopefully when funds permit

I was using an 82/Supercap and 250 and decided to go the streaming route intially purchasing a non Naim streamer but last year realised the error of my ways and purcchased a ex demo NDX  it was magic the CDI just gathred dust.

As I was in the throes of sorting my private penssion with a veiw to retiring early which I have done  (Money is not great but you will not beat the hours) I had some cash to play with so decide to go to the Bristol show earlier this year to listen to the latest Naim offerings.

After talking to the Naim staff after the demo they advised that in my system as above the upgrade route should be a XPS on the NDX then change the 250 for a new 250dr as they still have a very high regard for the 82 this must apply also to the 52.The next upgrade route would have been change the 82 then the Supercap.

After several discussions with my local dealer and demo's I was lucky enough to purchase a new systen retaining my NDX but adding an XPS dr.

At the level of your system I would suggest at least a NDX ,a XPS power suply will take it to another level but a 250dr will also bring massive improvements as always a dealer and home demo is a must as they will be able to advise on the different options.

Enjoy what ever option you decide.

Wind in ears posted:

Folks

Many thanks for your feedback seems to be mixed views.

my longer term plan is to move away from the Cds2 to streaming using Tidal. Then to move to a 250 DR as I head into retirement. Then add an XPS2 last. Not sure if that changes the advice?

I'd certainly echo the advice not to rely on Tidal,as your prime source of music. The catalogue is limited and the sound quality is not as good as locally stored rips of your CDs.

I'm not going to fall into the trap of saying 'buy what I've got', but all I'd say is that I've owned a CDS2, a CDS3 and a 552/300 in the past and that what I have now is just as enjoyable at a fraction of the price and without loads of boxes and wires all over the place. 

You really need to listen to some options. If you are anywhere near Chichester you'd be welcome to listen to my system and judge for yourself whether or not it's Hifi suicide. 

The comments about Tidal not being Hi Res are a bit odd, since it is at Premium level.

*However*, it does not necessarily come through in Hi Res, even when it says it is streaming at 44.1 kHz. This has been fixed in the latest Mu-So update.

Pcd posted:

I was using an 82/Supercap and 250 and decided to go the streaming route intially purchasing a non Naim streamer but last year realised the error of my ways and purcchased a ex demo NDX  it was magic the CDI just gathred dust.

As I was in the throes of sorting my private penssion with a veiw to retiring early which I have done  (Money is not great but you will not beat the hours) I had some cash to play with so decide to go to the Bristol show earlier this year to listen to the latest Naim offerings.

After talking to the Naim staff after the demo they advised that in my system as above the upgrade route should be a XPS on the NDX then change the 250 for a new 250dr as they still have a very high regard for the 82 this must apply also to the 52.The next upgrade route would have been change the 82 then the Supercap.

After several discussions with my local dealer and demo's I was lucky enough to purchase a new systen retaining my NDX but adding an XPS dr.

At the level of your system I would suggest at least a NDX ,a XPS power suply will take it to another level but a 250dr will also bring massive improvements as always a dealer and home demo is a must as they will be able to advise on the different options.

Enjoy what ever option you decide.

Naim staff proved very knowledgeble .

advice is just spot-on.

Hmmmm - I had a CDS2/XPS 52/SC and 135s and am now very happy with a Superuniti and Tidal. For me streaming is so much better than CDs that I'm too busy listening to music to agonise over the supposed loss of sound quality. Set up right a streaming system with Tidal (or better still Qobuz) sounds as good to me as a CD rip which in turn sounds better than a CD. I f you want ultimate sound quality then you can stream hires from your hard drive - not an option with the CDS2. 

I know there's a lot of love here for the CDS2 but I wasn't sorry to see it go - to me it wasn't all that much better than the CD5/Hicap it replaced. I'm not saying an SU would be right for you but I'd trust your ears rather than theoretical hierarchies. I'm typing this on a £300 laptop that would have cost £3k+ 10 years ago - there is such a thing as progress.

Hi Wind,

I would have thought that unless you are considering moving to a 552 that the 52 is something that you will keep; the 272 can only be a backward step. Although I do see the attraction in simplification and reduced box count.

I think both the 272 and the NDX present issues:

The 272 is a streamer with a poorer pre-amp than you are used to;
The NDX is a streamer with a DAC that is bettered by, for instance, the Naim DAC with PSU.

Are you comfortable with IT? Do you have a NAS?

Assuming the answer is yes then my advice would be to keep what you have and buy a microRendu. Then buy a DAC of your choice, be it a Naim, Chord, Aurelic, DCS or even Audiolab.

M

Antonio1 posted:

Moving for 52 to 272 with your kit

is a hifi 'suicide'.

Best bet is getting NDX ,if NDS is out of budget.

I understand the sentiment even if I don't agree. So many have downsized to a 272 and been so happy. While the view on the 272 ranges from philosophical appreciation for what it does at its price point to extreme hyperbole, I think the general concensus is that music is terrifically enjoyable with this device.

But that said, if you are capable of keeping your current amplification stack serviced regularly by Naim and the box count is not an issue, the absolutely go for NDX/NDS (or maybe a non Naim device - I have no tunnel vision about this). I would agree that Tidal should be considered with extreme caution as should all online services. I would be more inclined to take care to slowly rip your own CD collection to WAV/FLAC and enhance your experience and musical discovery with subscription services rather than replace them.

This is where I expect a lot of flack from other members but I think the current state of the world and various conflicts that can emerge makes a stable subscription service something that cannot be counted on wherever you happen to live. If you give up the collection without ripping it and then 5 years down the road something unthinkable happens you may find yourself without music and having to watch the demise of civilisation at the same time. I say that only half tongue 'n' cheek. Dont put all your eggs in one basket - especially one you don't control.

Why should Tidal be treated with extreme caution? It is simply FLAC streaming of 44.1/16 audio - there is no magic or anything sinister to it - just treat it as a regular OnDemand music source - I agree FLAC doesn't always sound as good as PCM WAV on Naim - but other streaming platforms don't exhibit this difference the same way. I have been enjoying Tidal on another platform this morning and the SQ and musical enjoyment has been terrifically  fulfilling and enjoyable.

I agree that Tidal can be a very enjoyable source, and certainly sounds quite close to CD rips over UPnP in sound quality. I couldn't live with it as my main source though, there is too much music that is either unavailable or only available in a lossy format. The disproportionately high UK pricing annoys me, too.

Antonio1 posted:

Pcd posted:

I was using an 82/Supercap and 250.................

After talking to the Naim staff after the demo they advised that in my system as above the upgrade route should be a XPS on the NDX then change the 250 for a new 250dr as they still have a very high regard for the 82 this must apply also to the 52.The next upgrade route would have been change the 82 then the Supercap.

After several discussions with my local dealer and demo's I was lucky enough to purchase a new systen retaining my NDX but adding an XPS dr.

At the level of your system I would suggest at least a NDX ,a XPS power suply will take it to another level but a 250dr will also bring massive improvements as always a dealer and home demo is a must as they will be able to advise on the different options.

Enjoy what ever option you decide.

Naim staff proved very knowledgeble .

advice is just spot-on.

+2

Sitting on the sidelines soaking up information!

Wow! Sounds like excellent advice.

Allante93!

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Why should Tidal be treated with extreme caution? It is simply FLAC streaming of 44.1/16 audio - there is no magic or anything sinister to it - just treat it as a regular OnDemand music source - I agree FLAC doesn't always sound as good as PCM WAV on Naim - but other streaming platforms don't exhibit this difference the same way. I have been enjoying Tidal on another platform this morning and the SQ and musical enjoyment has been terrifically  fulfilling and enjoyable.

Hi Simon, I just mean that Tidal, as with all streaming services is, in my opinion, not a good alternative to ownership of media though it is an excellent enhancement. Streaming services can vanish or be severely disrupted overnight. Oh course, if someone beleives that the world we live in is very stable and these services can withstand massive collapse of industry, banking, localised warfare (or that none of those things are likely to happen) then they can ignore this view.