Super lumina versus NACA5

Just looked at your profile, Your Interest is similar to 90% of Members on the Forum. I would guess that most Of the Members in the 272 and up Range, are over 50 years of age to say the least. 

Hence, acquired a mortgage, and paying bills, And if we are not in excellent shape, we are on Drugs, high blood pressure, diabetes, over weight, etc.....

Now those whose has reached the pinnacle of 252, and 500, territory, well they have over 50K invested in hi -fi, throw in the SL Full Loom, approaching 100K. 

I was really disappointed that Richard moved your previous post to the padded cell, Why does the Hi Fi corner post more than other forums.  Something like that! 

I know where you were headed, Human Nature, This is what we humans do. 

Strive to have others adopt our beliefs, ideas, and plans. 

Is this a legitimate post, and you're thinking of Upgrading? 

Or is the a hidden agenda, with an ulterior motive! 

BTW, Nice Rig: 252DR/300/Ndac/555PS, are you selling drugs !  LOL.....

Allante93! 

Consciousmess posted:

What is the improvement of this? Similar to DR upgrades?  

Would you like me to put a number on it?

There are loads of posts on the impact of Super Lumina; the search facility is your friend, as are your own ears. 

Again, thanks for the feedback!  Here's my predicament, I have no intention of getting a 552 as I am immensely happy with the DR powered 252 and 555 PS DR on the nDAC.  Recently, hifi stands have been a fantastic discovery by me - pretty much helping to optimise what I already have.  Superlumina has been praised - yes albeit at an expense.  If the improvement is negligible, I won't entertain it, but if the clarity of sound steps up a gear, my influx of cash will be put towards it - especially because these cables must NOW be at the top of the mountain.

And yes numbers would be good!! ��

If you're seriously considering Super Lumina speaker cables, see if you can borrow some on a reasonably extended loan before committing. Then change back to NACA5 and try to determine if it's really better or just different.

It might be worth trying Chord Super Sarum too before parting with the hard earned. 

I found them a wonderful improvement, if that helps. Are you able to borrow some from a dealer to try? That's what I did, as I wasn't prepared to spend thousands on wires without the chance to try them at home  

One other question: have you got dedicated mains? If not, do that first. A few hundred pounds, and it will give a firm foundation for the system to give its best. 

Yeah all this is with a new house - chosen so the listening room is away from neighbours!  Will get a dedicated mains later on, but have probably my final system and want to optimise.

Actually, maybe speakers will be changed in a year or so but that's it. I reckon a 252 DR system needs more than Monitor Audio Studio 20 SE, but speakers are to be tuned to the room - an error I made in the past.

With regard to borrowing from dealer - that's a sticky path as does it not OBLIGE me??!!!!

Of course it doesn't. You don't have to buy every car you take on a test drive, do you? 

SL offers excellent value for money but no two systems are the same so it's down to persoinal preference and priorities. It is expensive but cost is different to value. I used to run interconnects and speaker cables which cost over a quarter of what the amp cost. I did this be cause it sounded best to me.  Just trust your ears. 

SL speaker cable doesnt time as well as NACA5. It does other things (air, detail) very well, and considerably better than NACA5.

But I find it boring.

Should have added -- "now pulls up the forum sofa, makes some popcorn, and waits for the flaming :-) "

jon honeyball posted:

SL speaker cable doesnt time as well as NACA5. It does other things (air, detail) very well, and considerably better than NACA5.

But I find it boring.

I agree 100%.

I suggest getting the dedicated mains first, then start auditioning cables. The stock cables are surprising good.

Arun

As HH says, there are lots of threads on this topic, which a search will reveal.  In the meantime, I'd say that when I had a 282/SC/250.2 and tried a home demo of the SL speaker cables and interconnect it was one of those 'easy' decisions.  By that I don't mean to downplay the very significant cost of the SL cables. Rather, that the improvement in performance was so immediately obvious and large.  At the time I equated their impact to a black-box upgrade - which puts the cost into context. I still think that. 

Mike

Consciousmess posted:

 

With regard to borrowing from dealer - that's a sticky path as does it not OBLIGE me??!!!!

Absolutely not - Naim dealers have sufficient mark up on the retail price to more than cover this level of service.

Not  sure what  that means. If it means you can't borrow a set to audition from a dealer then don't go any further. It's an awful lot of money to spend on spec on cables. Not worth the risk in my view.

Dealer demonstration is vital and should be expected. My dealer spent an entire afternoon (3 hours plus) at my house changing power cables and speaker cables showing the immediate benefits.  The impact and clear superiority of SL speaker cables over NACA5 (a downgrade from the Nordost I had had in place) were both very clear. That we were also chasing down the apparently minor uplift that a 552 (potential purchase) brought to a 52-based system might have helped..........certainly helped me a huge amount!

MDS posted:

As HH says, there are lots of threads on this topic, which a search will reveal.  In the meantime, I'd say that when I had a 282/SC/250.2 and tried a home demo of the SL speaker cables and interconnect it was one of those 'easy' decisions.  By that I don't mean to downplay the very significant cost of the SL cables. Rather, that the improvement in performance was so immediately obvious and large.  At the time I equated their impact to a black-box upgrade - which puts the cost into context. I still think that. 

Mike

Nice Post, Very informative, with excellent advice. And yes Mike, if an Individual, has reached his end game, beit, 272, or Marque Separates, the SL technology can be considered as the last Black Box upgrade.

However, HONEYBALL & YEOWELL, has given us something to consider, as it relates to timing.

It appears that HONEYBALL, and Naim are on the same accord.  Adjectives like air, and detail, supports the fact that The Naim Sound is evolving, for the best.

One might say, the trickled down technologies, passed on from the Statement has repositioned Naim from Flat Earth to Middle Earth.

 Ok, to the point, these technologies were designed for the Statement, but equally at home with the 500 & Classic Series.  As Mike pointed out, a Black Box upgrade, with his Classic Series (282/SCDR).

 However, throw a wrench in the equation!

Let's say SN 2, perhaps the timing could be affected, Assuming one has demoed SL Speaker Cable with a SN 2, as opposed to the traditional Classic Series.

Furthermore, Some have had great success with  SL Cable, as it relates to Active Systems.

 S1/500, S1/300, 552/500,etc.....

However, how compatible is SL Speaker Cable, with an Active System, fronted with a  52!

Just some Thoughts, related to timing, and how it could possibly, be affected, when paired with Naim's Olive & Integrated Pre-Amps!

Enjoy your Music!

Allante93!

As others have said, just borrow a set for a few days and then take them back and see how you get on with the naca5 afterwards. You'd be crazy to spend that money without trying them first. I know my dealer would expect anything else.

On the timing question, we had a set of SL which were already meant to have been run in, and we found it suffered timing-wise by comparison with NACA5. However, we then ran it in over another three solid months on repeat on a Unitilite pretty much non stop, and hey presto! It timed just as well, possibly better, than NACA5. Now, why on earth it should take so much running in is beyond me, but I can at least say that with an awful lot of running in the SL does come good.

Frank.

It was my experience that the SLs took a lot of running in. Speaker cables and interconnect sounded unconvincing out of the box, DIN-XLR didn't seem to need to run in at all.  After a week they were convincing. After two weeks they were looking worth the outlay. From that point they seemed to continue to get better.  If I was in any doubt at this price level I would pass, as I have previously on many occasions. This is no guarantee that the OP will experience a comparable result.

Ah, running in and the benefits of being able to buy an already run-in second-hand set of SL cables!

The pair i tried were Naim's own demo set that had done the rounds, so i'm sure they were run in before they used them for events.

They would have to be. 

Frank Abela posted:

On the timing question, we had a set of SL which were already meant to have been run in, and we found it suffered timing-wise by comparison with NACA5. However, we then ran it in over another three solid months on repeat on a Unitilite pretty much non stop, and hey presto! It timed just as well, possibly better, than NACA5. Now, why on earth it should take so much running in is beyond me, but I can at least say that with an awful lot of running in the SL does come good.

Frank.

On the timing question, I made the error in Assuming the SN 2, didn't belong, to the Classic Series.

However, the 272 Pre, and the SN 2 belongs to the Classic Series.

And, as Naim states, are equally at home with the SL Speaker Cable!

If, I'm not mistaken, the Unitilite doesn't belong to the Classic Series.

In the end, I guess, all one can do, is give it a try and see if it works!

Beit, Unitilite, or  Vintage Olive technology!

Frank, remember the good old days, when the rule was, 10% spent on Speaker Cable, you can throw that out the Window!

Allante93!