First time Naim Nait 5si - speakers and set up choice

Hi Raghuv, welcome to the forum. As you already have the 704s, I would use them to start with and see how they sound with the new amp. Will you continue to use them in your AV setup, as you need to be sure you can integrate everything? If the 704s sound well matched to the Nait, I think you will find it difficult to get something better for your $600 budget. You may get better results by investing that in a DAC upgrade.

Thanks. I guess I am thinking ahead too much!

The Yamaha receiver has Pre-outs and I have been reading that it should be a straight forward hookup. 

I am more worried about the speaker cables that I need to get soldered, (already ordered).

Need to find a local chap to do it right.

The RCA to DIN interconnect for the CD player - I have not chosen yet!

The 704 is a bit more speaker than I would normally pair with a Nait5si, mainly because it's a bit of a difficult load. However, it's a much better speaker than you could get for $600! Keep it well away from the walls and hope for the best. If there's too much bass, consider plugging up the port.

The Nait has a unity gain option on its AV input. When this is set the AV amp preouts should be connected to that input and when you select it, that input acts as just a power amp. It is important that you do not plug any other source into it because you will get full volume!

I would strongly recommend Naim's NACA5 speaker cable, minimum 3.5m a side. This will help the amp loading even though it's not a requirement. If you are using the original biwire links, change them for real wire, and preferably the same as your speaker cable. Alternatively make an F connection (look it up in the search). You'd be surprised how much difference this makes.

Recommended 2-phono to DIN would be Naim's own for the best match. Other brands include Chord Co. and flashback cables of which I've heard many good things, but never tried them myself.

Frank.

Welcome Raghuv!

There are two things which must be borne in mind when integrating a stereo amp into an AV set:

1. All speakers (especially front L and R and centre ) must be of equal quality and ideally from the same manufacturer. In a typical movie scenario the centre channel carries approximately 50% of the soundtrack! So you must really think it terms of the whole package, nut just L and R channels.

2. Ground loops once your Yamaha is connected to your Nait running in an AV bypass mode. Those are best countered with a ground-loop isolating transformer plugged into the line-level connection. Typical cost (around Eur 15).

Adam

Indeed, ground loops can be a real issue with a Naim amp because the Naim's are properly earthed and most other electronics is not.

Frank.

Wow! Looks I am have serious learning to do.

I bought 10 M of Linn K20, Naim Speaker plugs, and QED Screwloc banana plugs based in other posts here and in a couple of other sites. They are cheaper choices, and I may have to revisit them.

I have no idea what a ground loop transformer is. Any recommendations on a brand/product?

Just google 'ground loop transformer isolator / isolation'.

For this application you don't need anything fancy.  Don't spend more than EUR 15 / USD 20 / GBP 15 on it.

Like this?Or 

And where would I use it?

This?

Or this?

RaghuV posted:

Or this? 

 

I might get one of these for our dog.

G

Now you are just funning with me. I am genuinely lost.

This one

Thanks. Found it on EBay UK.

Adam Zielinski posted:

Welcome Raghuv!

There are two things which must be borne in mind when integrating a stereo amp into an AV set:

1. All speakers (especially front L and R and centre ) must be of equal quality and ideally from the same manufacturer. In a typical movie scenario the centre channel carries approximately 50% of the soundtrack! So you must really think it terms of the whole package, nut just L and R channels.

2. Ground loops once your Yamaha is connected to your Nait running in an AV bypass mode. Those are best countered with a ground-loop isolating transformer plugged into the line-level connection. Typical cost (around Eur 15).

Adam

I have ordered a ground loop isolator on eBay. I also ordered an RCA to DIN interconnect cable for connecting my Yamaha receiver pre-outs into the Naim.

I am assuming that I would connect the isolator to the pre-outs from the receiver, and then the interconnect cable to female side of the isolator.

Am I right?

Will the isolator impact the quality of the signal going from the receiver to the Naim?

RaghuV posted:

Adam Zielinski posted:

Welcome Raghuv!

There are two things which must be borne in mind when integrating a stereo amp into an AV set:

1. All speakers (especially front L and R and centre ) must be of equal quality and ideally from the same manufacturer. In a typical movie scenario the centre channel carries approximately 50% of the soundtrack! So you must really think it terms of the whole package, nut just L and R channels.

2. Ground loops once your Yamaha is connected to your Nait running in an AV bypass mode. Those are best countered with a ground-loop isolating transformer plugged into the line-level connection. Typical cost (around Eur 15).

Adam

I have ordered a ground loop isolator on eBay. I also ordered an RCA to DIN interconnect cable for connecting my Yamaha receiver pre-outs into the Naim.

I am assuming that I would connect the isolator to the pre-outs from the receiver, and then the interconnect cable to female side of the isolator.

Am I right?

Will the isolator impact the quality of the signal going from the receiver to the Naim?

Correct on connections. 

I wouldn't really expect too much degradation. It will be certainly better than with ground loop hums. 

I use the same solution with my Yamaha into 252 - sounds very good indeed. 

For automating some of the switching and to limt your remote control count  you may want to look at the Logitech remote controls - especially the programmable ones - e.g Logitech Harmony range. 

Adam

Thanks. 

I now have a reasonable checklist of things to do:

1. Wire splitting of 10 M of Linn K20 speaker cable into two 4.5 m chunks, and soldering them to Naim Speaker plugs, and connecting  QED Screwloc banana plugs on the other side.

2. Replacing the lost bridge links for the front 704s with a small strand of the same speaker wire, using the connects from the old speaker wire binding.

3. Install the ground loop from the pre-outs of the receiver to the Naim Nait with the RCA-DIN cable

4. Setup the AV bypass mode for the Naim

5. Power on and pray!

6. Recalibrate the room (can I use the Yamaha's auto setup?)

7. I do have the Logitech Harmony 890, and plan to use a Saturday after installation for reprogramming all my music interfaces!

Really appreciate the help.

The Naim comes home tomorrow, but the accessories will follow only after a few days!

Re point 6: give it a try. Worked for me with my setup. From experience: some small adjustments may be needed. 

One thing to note: your quietest speaker should be set to 0 dB. All others with a NEGATIVE dB. Try not to use positive / boosting of signals. 

Just ordered a pair of Kef LS50s from the UK which should be here in Bangalore in a week.

Decided to bite the bullet and separate the music path from anything else.

Meanwhile the Naim Nait 5si seems to sound better and better everyday with the B&W 704s!

Impulse buying! 

KEF LS50s are hard to drive. Did you talk to the dealer about matching them to the Nait? It's not a match I'd normally suggest.

Frank.

Hello Frank,

I live in Banaglore, and there is only one dealer for KEF who is 40 km (and 2 hours in traffic) away. All I have done is read articles and reviews on the 5Si - LS50 combination. There are only a few, but the chaps who tried it talked about the fact that it worked well at moderate volumes.

I am going a phase of deep discovery of the early days of jazz and blues, and not a bass wonk, except when it comes to watching movies, so I am hoping the choice will work.

In a worst case scenario, I will probably swap out the amp or the speakers and take a hit on the resale.

I am very appreciative of your insights.

Raghu

For me, the minimum amp fr LS50s is a SuperUniti. They're really rather hard work.

Frank.

I read this on LS50 impedance measurements:

"I measured the LS50’s sensitivity by taking the average quasi-anechoic output with a 2.83-volt (1 watt @ 8 ohms) signal from 300 Hz to 10 kHz. The 84 dB result is fairly average; expect another +3 dB or so in real-world, in-room applications. Impedance averages 8 ohms, and drops to a low of 3.7 ohms at 240 Hz/+5° phase. In short, the LS50 might be a little tough for a low-powered, single-ended tube amp to drive, but I doubt any other amp would prove inadequate to the task."

How worried should I be in the Naim 5si - LS50 combo?

RaghuV posted:

 

How worried should I be in the Naim 5si - LS50 combo?

I don't have experience of the Nait-LS50 combo but have heard them on similar category integrated with other makes & they sounded happy enough.  -  You might be interested to read an extract from Stereophile magazine where the reviewer runs LS50's with a mix of entry level amps.  Also I would add the that that Naim amps seem to deliver watts that seem to be beefier than yer average,  you might be well pleased.  

Best regards to Bangalore,  before I retired my cmpy had an R&D office there that meant I travelled to India,  including a lot of travel around the country,  about 3 or 4 times a year.  We moved to a purpose built centre near Ramanagaram on the Mysore Road,  beautiful country in that area & we used a nice golf club hotel,  but I sure missed downtown Bangalore

Thanks for the review. I had gone through it, and did not quite know how to translate it for thinking about the Naim.

I was on vacation in the UK a month ago, and had occasion to listen the Naim Nait 5si in a small shop at Stratford-upon-Avon, just across from my hotel.

I repeated the experience, at a specialist near Baker Street in London, a couple of weeks later, and fell in love with the sound.

The shops did not carry KEFs, they were using  B&Ws CM something at London, and I can't remember the speaker combo at Stratford.

As for Bangalore, it is a great city. I stay, alas, on the outskirts at Whitefield, and it almost an hour plus away in traffic!