DR vs Drama..?

hmmm I have done this test with 282/HCDR connected to NAP 200 and NAP 250DR, there were 3 of us, and the 250 DR showed the NAP 200 a clean pair of heels.

The Nap 200 just doesn't have the resolution of the Nap 250DR, and sounds dry by comparison  (depending on the source).

The 200 also does not have the refinement of the 250 DR.

Your 250DR will need 3 months of solid playing time. Those capacitors do need burn in time.

So I would connect the 250 DR, play music on it every day, and wait for 3 months.

Unless you are planning on selling/returning it?

I have also compared bare superuniti to SU/250 DR, and then 272/250 DR and in each case it was a major improvement

The 2 friends who heard my 250 DR, ending up buying one each. And yes they have heard my NAP 200 with me during my testing.

I ended up buying Dynaudio Focus 260 speakers, which are not a gentle load at 4 ohms, but still a constant 4 ohm load, so 250 DR gives some freedom to go for more demanding speakers. When playing at high volumes the 250 DR does heat up, but does not shut down, so the speakers are drawing plenty of current from the amp !

Okay Analogmusic, thanks for the reassurances. That is good to hear. Yes, I can certainly hear more resolution and detail with the 250 DR. New details in the background music previously not heard with the 200 came up with the 250 DR.

3 months? Wow that is surely a long time. I will probably give it 1 to 2 weeks of burn-in before I do some serious listening. Perhaps up to a month.

Dynaudio Focus is a rather clean and neutral speaker so it may have worked well with the 250 DR. The Harbeth SHL5s are a bit coloured and tend to exhibit a loose and uncontrolled bass with the wrong amps. I hope the 250 DR is the right amp for the Harbeth after it has completed the burn-in process.

ryder. posted:

I think I'll send an email to Naim Support on the burn-in period for the NAP 250 DR since I am not getting any feedback on this forum.

? - Some are trying to be helful accross your two posts.

G

GraemeH posted:

ryder. posted:

I think I'll send an email to Naim Support on the burn-in period for the NAP 250 DR since I am not getting any feedback on this forum.

? - Some are trying to be helful accross your two posts.

G

Pardon for the lack of clarity. I meant to say getting feedback from Naim on this forum. There are few responses on the burn-in period of the 250 DR and as usual, experiences are mixed. One even thought no burn-in is required as it's all in the mind.

GraemeH posted:

ryder. posted:

I think I'll send an email to Naim Support on the burn-in period for the NAP 250 DR since I am not getting any feedback on this forum.

? - Some are trying to be helful accross your two posts.

G

Pardon for the lack of clarity. I meant to say getting feedback from Naim on this forum. There are few responses on the burn-in period of the 250 DR and as usual, experiences are mixed. One even thought no burn-in is required as it's all in the mind.

A funny thing happened to my answer on the way to the Forum...

I'll try again

G

I seem to be getting administered for some reason

G

ryder. posted:

GraemeH posted:

ryder. posted:

I think I'll send an email to Naim Support on the burn-in period for the NAP 250 DR since I am not getting any feedback on this forum.

? - Some are trying to be helful accross your two posts.

G

Pardon for the lack of clarity. I meant to say getting feedback from Naim on this forum. There are few responses on the burn-in period of the 250 DR and as usual, experiences are mixed. One even thought no burn-in is required as it's all in the mind.

Ah, OK. Naim tend not to interact that way on the forum.

Definitely not in the mind in my experience.

G

Graeme, it's the forum's word filter.  

To All: Please don't keep re-posting if and when this happens as I have to approve them all and then go back and delete the dupes. Not so easy when I'm out about just with my iPhone and no 3 or 4G..  Luckily it doesn't happen too often even though there are some strange things that set it off...

Sorry Richard - Thought I hadn't pressed 'post reply' properly on the iPad the first time and then repeated the error as I couldn't figure why the thread should be called in.

G

250DR performing well on this album which I know intimately. Much much biggger side to side and back to front space around the individual musicians. Greater transparency too (compared to 250.2). Yesterday it was noticably 'off' though.

G

Mine sounding just superbly coherent and totally in command today Ryder. It is such a step-up on the 250.2 it's laughable.

A new one arriving for me in 2 weeks. Giving the demonstrator back will be tough.

G

Ryder - I hesitate to say this but I think your mind could be playing tricks.  Mine sounded fantastic almost out the box.  

The OP implied that DR (upgrades) are trading musicality or PRAT for higher fidelity.

I few days ago my dealer and I were discussing the evolving Naim sound. I mentioned that recent developments have provided additional detail and imaging, but he was very much of the opinion that the Naim sound has not fundamentally changed - they've just found ways of improving it. The big change was when they moved from green to black boxes. 

I agree that the recent stuff improves what I already have and after ten days I can hear no downside to DR. Sadly, the Olympics have somewhat curtailed my listening opportunities.

Keith

Yes the Olympics are rather getting the way.  

ryder. posted:

I think I'll send an email to Naim Support on the burn-in period for the NAP 250 DR since I am not getting any feedback on this forum.

I went from 200 to 250DR and It was great since the very first moment.

Review the grounding of your sources. I couldn't install the Hugo properly and decidedto keep the V1 in the main kit and use  when in bed Streaming Qobuz/MBA/A2+/Hugo/HD800

That is good to hear Graeme. I have not been doing any serious listening but a brief session certainly revealed tangible differences, in my case between the NAP 200 and 250 DR. However, as mentioned earlier I would reserve judgment for the time being. In the context of my system, I am still unsure whether the differences translate to an improvement in sound quality or a different sonic presentation. In other words, I am still not in the position to decide whether I prefer the presentation of the 282/HCDR/200 or the 282/HCDR/250DR more.

The Strat (Fender),

I would also expect the NAP 250 DR to at least sound better than the NAP 200 fresh out of the box. But in my case, the differences although appreciable, to me isn't exactly an upgrade in the context of my system and/or listening preferences. I am (slowly) beginning to accept the fact that the NAP 250 DR will not bring the same level of impact as the NAC 282 and HCDR. It was a moment of revelation when the NAC 282 and HCDR replaced the NAC 202 and non-Naim PSU. The sonic improvements are staggering to say the least. I suppose I cannot set the same level of expectations with the NAP 250 DR replacing the NAP 200.

KRM posted:

The OP implied that DR (upgrades) are trading musicality or PRAT for higher fidelity.

I few days ago my dealer and I were discussing the evolving Naim sound. I mentioned that recent developments have provided additional detail and imaging, but he was very much of the opinion that the Naim sound has not fundamentally changed - they've just found ways of improving it. The big change was when they moved from green to black boxes. 

I agree that the recent stuff improves what I already have and after ten days I can hear no downside to DR. Sadly, the Olympics have somewhat curtailed my listening opportunities.

Keith

If it is proven that the NAP 250 DR requires little burn-in, and I am getting 90 to 95% of the actual performance from the 250 DR, I can surely attest to your remark on the DR trading musicality with higher fidelity. A disclaimer is I have not done any serious listening yet and my comments are based on brief listening sessions.

In the simplest choice of words, the NAP 200 (non-DR) is more fluid, organic and illuminating. The 250 DR sounds more controlled and detailed with a slightly less illuminating sound. With the higher levels of detail and control, the presentation of the 250 DR is less fluid and free-flowing, slightly mechanical  when compared to the fluid NAP 200. More detail = higher fidelity. With the added detail and refinement, the sound of instruments and percussion in the background sound more realistic, believable or sophisticated with the 250 DR. But for overall flow in the music, the NAP 200 seems to be slightly better. The NAP 200 sounds slightly airier than the NAP 250 DR. As there is more control with the 250 DR, music sounds more in control, slightly less open.

Has anyone compared the NAP 200 to the NAP 250 DR on a NAC 282/HCDR? I would welcome anyone who had done to the comparison to share your impressions.

Erich posted:

I went from 200 to 250DR and It was great since the very first moment.

Review the grounding of your sources. I couldn't install the Hugo properly and decidedto keep the V1 in the main kit and use  when in bed Streaming Qobuz/MBA/A2+/Hugo/HD800

A Krell CD player is connected to the NAC 282. Any thoughts on how to go about this "grounding"?

Does anyone know if grounding of a Krell KPS-30i CD player is required and will it make a difference?

you need to ask krell if signal earth (the negative part of the signal) is connected to mains earth

if not, it is an easy fix, please look at my previous post on how to do this (as advised by Chord Electronics on how to ground the Hugo)

The highs on my 250 DR were a bit recessed, but this takes time, due to burn in - patience is required as well as proper grounding.

The bass of my 250 DR was simply awesome compared to my NAP 200 from switch on, I don't find the Naim sound has changed at all on the newer 250 DR, if anything it is a big improvement on the older 250.2. But this is immediately apparent on my Dynaudio speakers, not sure about Harbeth, never heard them. 

Whenever I now hear an unregulated amp, whether NAP 100, Nap 200 or Superuniti, I can hear straight away the downgrade in sound quality, they now seem less refined to me, with a little bit of lack of resolution and even sounds "dry" which is very apparent with vocals to me. 

In fact when I tried Superuniti bare, then Superuniti/250DR, the SU/250DR made the bare SU sound almost broken ! (although it sounds fine until you add the 250 DR and then listen)

The 250 DR just sounds powerful, and refined at the same time.

Be patient, I had some doubts in the beginning, but running in of a Naim is required, 3 months of playing it daily is required, Naim told me they play their amps on a constant loop of music 24/7 to run them in.

Darke Bear is having run in issues with his NAP 500 DR (please see his thread on NAP 500DR), and he has previously stated it took a good 6 months for his NAP 500 to sound very good, and 9 months to attain 100 % performance.

There is no way around this, you will just have to play lots of music and be patient

Thanks Analog. You have captured the details well in your description. I have experienced a similar observation with the 250 DR vs 200. As I have mentioned earlier, the 250 DR has more refinement and detail. The higher level of resolution with the 250 DR renders not only voices but instruments particularly percussion, drums and hi-hat to sound more sophisticated, more real. The sound of cymbals, hi-hat is rather different between the 200 and 250 DR.

And yes, I agree the highs of the 250 DR is a bit recessed compared to the 200. Again, good observation which pretty much coincides with my experience at the moment. With the 200, the tone of the piano is airier, more energetic and illuminating as it decays into the background. WIth the 250 DR, the sound of the piano isn't as extended.

As for the bass, I appreciate the significant improvement you have perceived when going from the 250 DR to the 200. Currently the difference in the bass between the 200 and 250 DR in my system isn't huge. However, I can hear more layering in the bass with the 250 DR, more texture. The bass of both 200 and 250 DR isn't punchy or deep but clean and tight.

I am currently playing music on the system 24/7 at very low volume. I am looking forward to a transformation within a week's time. I take note on the 3 month burn-in period that is required. Nine months for the NAP 500 DR? Wow that is surely pushing it.

Will look up the thread on grounding bu I suspect it's not an issue in my system.