DR vs Drama..?

ryder. posted:

Will look up the thread on grounding bu I suspect it's not an issue in my system.

Why?

C.

Although I am tempted to reinstall the non-Naim PSU into the system just to reconfirm that it is a hugely inferior unit next to the HCDR, the idea of  getting the HCDR out from the system is demotivating. Do you think I should reinstall the non-Naim PSU? I have tried the non-Naim PSU with the 282/200 but not the 282/250.

The moment I hear a rolled of highs and unnatural/unbalanced bass with the non-Naim PSU I will unplug the thing from the system instantly.

Christopher_M posted:

ryder. posted:

Will look up the thread on grounding bu I suspect it's not an issue in my system.

Why?

C.

Because the Krell CDP sounded great with both 282/HCDR/200 and 282/HCDR/250.

 get your own thread eh Ryder

You can call it audiophilia nervosa or can somebody please hold my hand and reassure me constantly

Its a hifi system not a life support mechanism. Your constant posts about is A better than B are getting old. Fast..

Mark J posted:

get your own thread eh Ryder

You can call it audiophilia nervosa or can somebody please hold my hand and reassure me constantly

Its a hifi system not a life support mechanism. Your constant posts about is A better than B are getting old. Fast..

 

Sorry if my posts have offended you, but I don't quite understand your point. Since you have got the 250 DR, I suspect you want it to better the 250.2 in your system. It's the whole point of wanting A to be better than B isn't it?

I will stop posting in this post if you do not appreciate my presence here.

Hi Ryder, I moved from a 200 to a 250.2 with a 282 HiCapDR front end and for me the uplift in performance was marked. The 250.2 provides more detail and texture and provided greater scale and depth and dynamic punch.. I noticed this straightaway. There was a burn in but it was quick over a few days.. and it was mainly a tightening of bass and a slight brightening of the sonic presentation.

My speakers, which are an important coupling with the NAP were ATC SCM 19s.

I have not played with the 250DR at home but elsewhere in the context of other people's systems it seems to share many/most of the traits of the250.2.

It just might be with your speakers that you don't prefer the sound of the 250 over the 200... it doesn't always follow bigger/more expensive is necessarily better for you. I preferred the NDAC over the NDS for example...

As far as source grounding, yes one and only one source must be earth grounded for optimal performance .. but clearly the NAP has no part in this

Not offended but very, very bored with you constantly chiming in asking for advice. You either like something or you don't . Why the constant need for advice and affirmation? Its only hifi. Make your own mind up whether you like something or not. You actually think this forum is full of "experts"... haha think again.

Mark J posted:

Not offended but very, very bored with you constantly chiming in asking for advice. You either like something or you don't . Why the constant need for advice and affirmation? Its only hifi. Make your own mind up whether you like something or not. You actually think this forum is full of "experts"... haha think again.

Okay I get your point. Thanks for the clarification. I presume the 250 DR is not working in your system.

Cheers.

Hi Simon,

Thanks for the post. I certainly need to figure out what is wrong. I appreciate the marked improvement you have got when you moved from the 200 to the 250.2, with the NAC 282/Hicap DR. Though in the context of my system, the difference when going from the 200 to the 250 DR is not as significant as I had expected.

I will attempt to check on the grounding of the source and last resort is to adjust the placement of speakers, if all else fails.

ryder. posted:

Hi Simon,

Thanks for the post. I certainly need to figure out what is wrong. I appreciate the marked improvement you have got when you moved from the 200 to the 250.2, with the NAC 282/Hicap DR. Though in the context of my system, the difference when going from the 200 to the 250 DR is not as significant as I had expected.

I will attempt to check on the grounding of the source and last resort is to adjust the placement of speakers, if all else fails.

On your other thread you noted: 

"Received an official reply from Naim via email, Mr Steven Hopkins on this matter. A period of 6 to 8 weeks of continuous use is recommended for any Naim product to settle in and perform at its best."

P a t i e n c e

G

ryder. posted:

The Strat (Fender),

I would also expect the NAP 250 DR to at least sound better than the NAP 200 fresh out of the box. But in my case, the differences although appreciable, to me isn't exactly an upgrade in the context of my system and/or listening preferences. I am (slowly) beginning to accept the fact that the NAP 250 DR will not bring the same level of impact as the NAC 282 and HCDR. It was a moment of revelation when the NAC 282 and HCDR replaced the NAC 202 and non-Naim PSU. The sonic improvements are staggering to say the least. I suppose I cannot set the same level of expectations with the NAP 250 DR replacing the NAP 200.

 

Oh - yes the 282 is an absolute game changer but I thought that whilst the 282 took several weeks to get there the 250DR rocked from the first track.   Does get better still!!!

ryder. posted:

Mark J posted:

Not offended but very, very bored with you constantly chiming in asking for advice. You either like something or you don't . Why the constant need for advice and affirmation? Its only hifi. Make your own mind up whether you like something or not. You actually think this forum is full of "experts"... haha think again.

Okay I get your point. Thanks for the clarification. I presume the 250 DR is not working in your system.

Cheers.

"When you pay attention to boredom it gets unbelievably interesting."

Jon Kabat-Zinn

Allante93!

MDS posted:

My early impressions of what DR brought to the party left me underwhelmed.  I first tried a 555PSDR on my nDAC and felt it too forced and digital. A little while later I tried a non-DR 555PS and much preferred it.  I later tried a  SCDR in place of my non-DR SC on my 282 and felt the improvement marginal (it was much more noticeable on a 252 but I didn't like what the 252 did to rock music).  However roll forward a couple of years and I've come to appreciate what the DR does.  My view of the 555PSDR has completely reversed.  I tend to think that there's a multiplier effect as more DR components are introduced into the system.      

This is exactly how all my DR upgrades sounded. I envied in some ways those that got instant unequivocal positive results, but I never did. For example, when I owned a 552 I had that DR updated and though it sounded thin, contrived, 'plasticy' (not a real word described it) and just generally wrong - others had instant success! It is down to personal way we listen - I find a lot in low-level fine-detail many seem to find no use for - and system; an Active system magnifies things, good and bad.

Skip forward a few months - a lot better - a year and much better - two years and superb.

Run-in exists and is real for some of us as much as people say it is all in the mind and only lasts a a few hours. I was going to say something sharp about what I think of such comments, but I will move-on.

Presently my DR 500 are running-in on week 3 and are occasionally un-musical bad-HiFi. Then they come into a period when they are fantastic and deeply revealing of emotion.

I hear run-in as an undulating wave of distortion of both dull and harsh sort that rides in the back of the music and has a period of several hours and days and rises and falls - gradually decreasing and tailing-off over a few months and actually a year or more at a lower level. I've experimented and found one aspect of it is additive to the music - turning the volume up peaks the music over the veil of run-in distortion - I hear it as a curtain. Another aspect does track the music no matter what the volume and turning it up makes that worse. Both of these effects run-in together and have different periods.

Depending on your system this may be over quickly and you don't hear it after a shorter time.

DB.

Well if run in takes two years and servicing done every 10 years, that's an underperforming system 20% of the time. Now if various bits of kit are serviced at different intervals then the likelyhood is that the 20% figure would rise to 50% or more over the duration. That's a lot of money to pay for the privilege of running stuff in. Personally i'd like to know how one can determine and identify changes a year or two later.

Naim say a  month of regular use,  Seems about right.  Best way to do it is to leave the radio playing - FM only of course wouldn't want to corrupt it with DAB 

Darke Bear posted:

MDS posted:

My early impress.......

My view of the 555PSDR has completely reversed.  I tend to think that there's a multiplier effect as more DR components are introduced into the system.      

Run-in exists and is real for some of us as much as people say it is all in the mind and only lasts a a few hours. I was going to say something sharp about what I think of such comments, but I will move-on.

Presently my DR 500 are running-in on week 3 and are occasionally un-musical bad-HiFi. .................Then they come into a period when they are fantastic and deeply revealing of emotion.....

 

DB.

DR vs Drama, SL vs NAC A5, and  that's just a few of  the post, which reflect Naim's evolving sound.

Distinct Naim Era's:

Chrome Bumper/Olive/Black Box/DR Era 

Here lies the problem, if one implements, Naims trickled down DR technologies into mixed Era's!

There's no escape, unless you're filthy Rich!!!!

Point and case, let's say one is running the Full Loom Dred 500 Series, well this individual had to deal with burn-in issues.

 Dred Pre/ SL IC/SL XLR/ SL Cable/DR Amp

Now if I hit the Lotto, my burn periods would be much shorter!  

WHY?  THE STATEMENT!

Now let's examine, the other end of the spectrum.

Beautiful vintage 52 Active System with 135s!

System sounds great, but this gentleman wants more, perhaps this SL Speaker Cable, might do the trick, WRONG!

OK, point made, there's a countless number of issues, that can, and will arise, throughout the spectrum, when implementing these DR technologies.

Furthermore, these burn-in issues, are only exaggerated, with Hi end Active Systems!

S1/Snaxo/3 x 500DR/Full Loom

Just some Thoughts!

Enjoy your Music!

Allante93!

ryder. posted:

The Strat (Fender),

I would also expect the NAP 250 DR to at least sound better than the NAP 200 fresh out of the box. But in my case, the differences although appreciable, to me isn't exactly an upgrade in the context of my system and/or listening preferences. I am (slowly) beginning to accept the fact that the NAP 250 DR will not bring the same level of impact as the NAC 282 and HCDR. It was a moment of revelation when the NAC 282 and HCDR replaced the NAC 202 and non-Naim PSU. The sonic improvements are staggering to say the least. I suppose I cannot set the same level of expectations with the NAP 250 DR replacing the NAP 200.

 

This is not what I found when I upgraded.  I was using 202 w/ aftermarket power supply & 200, I swapped to a bare 282 to compare.  At the time I didn't think there were massive differences between the two setups.  The bare 282 was probably about the same for details/resolution but sounded smoother/more musical.  Then I added the HiCAP DR & that's when I got the big jump up in all the typical "hifi" areas.  I then swapped to a less then 6 month old 250DR & right away it was another big jump up for me, I'd say close to the same step as when adding the HiCAPDR.  More realistic, better resolution details with blacker backgrounds, more air, fuller presentation (more weight to instruments) & fuller in the bottom end.  

In my room, my speakers are on the large size for the space, so the extra weight of the 250DR sounded over powering on certain bass heavy tracks & at times would sound a little "slow" compared to the 200 because of this.  That is about the only issue I had with the 250DR (& not really the amps fault), but all other areas were a nice jump up, so never thought twice about re-installing the 200.  Over time either the amp ran in (or more likely my ears/brain adjuested) & I don't typically notice the bass issue on certain tracks. 

daren_p posted:

............

Then I added the HiCAP DR & that's when I got the big jump up in all the typical "hifi" areas.  I then swapped to a less then 6 month old 250DR & right away it was another big jump up for me, I'd say close to the same step as when adding the HiCAPDR.  More realistic, better resolution details with blacker backgrounds, more air, fuller presentation (more weight to instruments) & fuller in the bottom end. 

Well Daren P, you are following Naims playbook!

Be careful!

"Our SL IC, and Speaker Cable, was designed for the Statement, but equally at home with the 500, and Classic Series"

How do you guys say it:

Don't spoil what you have, by wishing, what you want...???

You've acquired an Dred front and rear end, Now the law of Diminishing Returns can kick in!

500 Series, well...., but 282/HCDR, the Loom ain't Cheap!

Allante93!

ryder. posted:

Erich posted:

I went from 200 to 250DR and It was great since the very first moment.

Review the grounding of your sources. I couldn't install the Hugo properly and decidedto keep the V1 in the main kit and use  when in bed Streaming Qobuz/MBA/A2+/Hugo/HD800

A Krell CD player is connected to the NAC 282. Any thoughts on how to go about this "grounding"?

First of all make sure if yor cdp has the sound signal grounded or not. User manual or ask krell. If it is (grounded), you have to make sure that no other source is grounded to avoid ground loops. If it is not (grounded), check that only one ofthe other sources is grounded.

ryder. posted:

I am currently playing music on the system 24/7 at very low volume.

I assume, perhaps wrongly, that run-in of a power amp should be as loud as possible, without alienating the rest of the family.

Keith

The Strat (Fender) posted:

Naim say a  month of regular use,  Seems about right.  Best way to do it is to leave the radio playing - FM only of course wouldn't want to corrupt it with DAB 

Regarding the total burn in time, I'm intrigued to know how long it takes for the device and how long it takes for your brain, also how all this is impacted by the amount of money you spend in the upgrade and your expectations. What I'm sure is that to burn out your wallet in a naim dealer could take only a few seconds.

Erich posted:

Regarding the total burn in time, I'm intrigued to know how long it takes for the device and how long it takes for your brain, also how all this is impacted by the amount of money you spend in the upgrade and your expectations. What I'm sure is that to burn out your wallet in a naim dealer could take only a few seconds.

Truer words, never spoken, that's my point, 282/HCDR/250DR we're talking 9K GBP.

The Full Loom, not including Power lines, we're @ 6K GBP ( SL Din IC, SL XLR IC, and SL Cable) . 

And thats only a 5m pair of Speaker Cable @ 3K!

I looked it up:

PS, Don't spoil what you have with what you wish for!  I wasn't that far off! 

Enjoy your Music

Allante93!

analogmusic posted:

you need to ask krell if signal earth (the negative part of the signal) is connected to mains earth

if not, it is an easy fix, please look at my previous post on how to do this (as advised by Chord Electronics on how to ground the Hugo)

 

 

Just got a response from Krell. They are surely quick! Their response is as follows:-

We do not have a unit in house to verify this but more than likely the negative part of the signal is connected through a 10 ohm resistor and then to the chassis.

Based on this response, can anyone advise if the Krell player is grounded?