Alternative to hiFace EVO Two

Hydra Z?

Gustard U12.

Wotan posted:

Hello everyone,

My system: Mac mini > usb cable > EVO2/Supply2 > BNC cable > Naim DAC

I'm looking for an alternative to my current M2Tech combo: hiFace EVO Two/EVO Supply Two. I am very happy with the sound of this combo. But I have a problem: the EVO does not allow native DSD playback via S/PDIF to my Naim DAC.

I would like to hear other alternatives that maintain a simiilar level of sound quality and, moreover, allow native DSD playback via S/PDIF.

Thanks

I have a similar setup with a fit-PC3 instead of the mini and and EVO1 instead of the EVO2. If you manage to test an an alternative to your EVO2, I would be very interested in your findings. I have been considering replacing my EVO1 with an Hydra Z. Thanks, nbpf

Further wrt Gustard:

I think this is great VFM. However, it doesn't get a straight recommendation. All this is probably very system dependent. In my system the U12 gives good results when streaming Quboz. From my NAS classical music is excellent, with Rock/Pop I find it a bit warm(?).

The U12 is much better than the HiFace I.

Trouble is that you cannot audition the U12 or others sourced from the far East, and they will probably vary depending on context.

I am just getting a Breeze DU8 and will report back in due course.

M

Richard Dane has been testing the Gustard as an interface to nDAC - seaching the forum should find info so far.

i'm not sure how the Gustard can change its character with different types of music?

T38.45 posted:

Hydra Z?

 

Interesting ... Has anyone had a chance to compare it with the EVO2?

Mr Underhill posted:

Gustard U12.

Also very interesting, especially for the price, but the Gustard doesn't use BNC on its coaxial spdif out unfortunately...

Wotan posted:

Mr Underhill posted:

Gustard U12.

Also very interesting, especially for the price, but the Gustard doesn't use BNC on its coaxial spdif out unfortunately...

You can get RCA to BNC cables, however Richard was playing with the AES/EBU output to the nDAC, so that may be another option.

Mainly, I prefer to keep my current cable. But, as you say, it is another option ... Thanks

Wotan posted:

T38.45 posted:

Hydra Z?

Interesting ... Has anyone had a chance to compare it with the EVO2?

I doubt it, please see https://forums.naimaudio.com/topic/best-usb-to-s-pdif-converter-for-naim-dac?page=1. I had a short exchage with the German distributor of the Hydra Z. He is very competent and cooperative. If you are located in Germany, I think that it should not be very difficult to organize a demo. I am very happy with my hiFace Evo but I would be interested in testing an Hydra Z. I have been hoping that Naim will finally come out with a small server (a la microRendu but with user upgradeable SSD and minimServer) that can be diretly connected to the Naim DAC via BNC. But, if nothing new comes from Naim, I will certainly demo the Hydra Z.

Innocent Bystander posted:

Richard Dane has been testing the Gustard as an interface to nDAC - seaching the forum should find info so far.

i'm not sure how the Gustard can change its character with different types of music?

Hi Innocent,

I don't think it does, I just think it is evident with certain types of music. A friend popped over the other day and said, 'The dynamics are there, the detail is there but it isn't quiet timing.'; this was with Led Zepp. That was his way of interpreting what we were hearing. I had heard the same, and that is what I tried to express above.

Further - I always find it when people ask for advice, or render it, without understanding peoples musical taste, I think these things do matter and that certain equipment is better for certain genres. As Richard is using the U12 in a Naim system I would imagine his views are more to the point in this instance. My aim was not for my post above to be taken as an unequivocal recommendation. What I find MORE interesting is that is uniformly sounds good with Quboz, but not so with Rock/Pop from my NAS; I can only report what I am hearing.

M

nbpf posted

I have been hoping that Naim will finally come out with a small server (a la microRendu .....

Yes, that is what I hoped when Naim first bought out their servers, and before the streamers. The chose to embed the functionality so that you have to buy it together with 'yet another' Naim DAC.

M

nbpf posted:

Wotan posted:

T38.45 posted:

Hydra Z?

Interesting ... Has anyone had a chance to compare it with the EVO2?

I doubt it, please see https://forums.naimaudio.com/topic/best-usb-to-s-pdif-converter-for-naim-dac?page=1. I had a short exchage with the German distributor of the Hydra Z. He is very competent and cooperative. If you are located in Germany, I think that it should not be very difficult to organize a demo...

I'm not located in Germany, but in Spain ... an absolute desert for a demo. For this reason, I appreciate all your comments and experiences.

Will the nDac accept DSD via it's SPDIF coax or optical inputs? I thought it would only accept via USB socket and then only using USB stick.

Best wishes,

Steve

SAT posted:

Will the nDac accept DSD via it's SPDIF coax or optical inputs? I thought it would only accept via USB socket and then only using USB stick.

Best wishes,

Steve

From firmware update 4.11.8, Naim DAC is now able to play DSD files via S/PDF or USB inputs.

Indeed, the digital inputs require the DSD framed as DoP and the USB inputs play DSF and DFF files.

So the digital inputs are not playing true DSD but DSD converted to PCM?

I ask because my converter (Ciunas) doesn't do DSD and while I was very pleased by DSD via USB stick it's not that convenient and I wonder about the value of DSD if it's been converted to PCM.

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Indeed, the digital inputs require the DSD framed as DoP and the USB inputs play DSF and DFF files.

SAT posted:

So the digital inputs are not playing true DSD but DSD converted to PCM?

I ask because my converter (Ciunas) doesn't do DSD and while I was very pleased by DSD via USB stick it's not that convenient and I wonder about the value of DSD if it's been converted to PCM.

No ... DoP is NOT "converted to PCM" ... it is simply encapsulating the pure DSD data within (24bit 176.4kHz) PCM frame.  Its a system created initially by dCS but open sourced and developed by a number of manufacturers.

To quote from the introduction to the official documentary on the "DoP Open Standard" website...

The USB Audio specification 2.0 defines multiple formats for audio of which standard PCM is only one. A general “raw data” format was also defined that can be used for any kind of data including audio, but unfortunately, no specific format was defined for DSD and with the ongoing proliferation of USB converters in the current market it appears that the opportunity for the official USB specification to adopt a single common method of transferring DSD audio via USB is slowly disappearing. This is an attempt of uniting as many manufacturers as possible and jointly defining a method for transferring DSD via USB. While this method is mainly targeted for USB links it is general enough to be applied to other PCM based links such as Firewire, AES/EBU, S/PDIF etc.

Of course ... (afaik) everything in the nDAC IS converted to high bitrate PCM as thats what its 1704 DAC chips accept.

Wotan,

Depending how rich you are feeling this is getting a lot of positive feedback, not heard it myself:

Mutec MC-3+ Smartclock USB

M

Mr Underhill posted:

Wotan,

Depending how rich you are feeling this is getting a lot of positive feedback, not heard it myself:

Mutec MC-3+ Smartclock USB

M

wooowww ... looks fine!  To consider. Thanks. 

Wotan,

If you want a full list below is a comparative list by rb2013 on Head-Fi.

He produced the list when he started comparing DDRs. He has since gone on to use AOIP - Audio over IP, which as you will see he thinks is a BIG jump on from USB.

I am currently using the Gustard U12, which he rates at 72. I will be receiving a Breeze DU-U8 with Talema transformer next week, which he ranks at 100. As you will see from his 'ranking', which is obviously very subjective, his enthusiasm for AOIP - which I am tracking.

REDNET 3/Cerious Graphene/Mutec 3+ USB (SPDIF)/Antelope OCX (RN wClock)           270
REDNET 3/Cerious/Mutec 3+ USB/Audience au24 se digital cable                               250
REDNET 3/Cerious/Mutec 3+ USB (SPDIF reclocker)/AS Sliver Statement dig cable        240
REDNET 3/Cerious Power Cord          220
Singxer F-1 DC30W/Cerious/Recovery/DCiPur/ iPur2/Startech GB LAN Iso USB            170
Mutec 3+ Smart Clock USB/Cerious Power Cord          155
Singxer F-1 DC30W/Cerious/Recovery/DCiPur/ iPur2          145
PUC2 Lite TeraDak DC30W/Cerious/Regen          135
Singxer F-1 DC30W/Cerious          135
DXIO Silver/TeraDak DC-30W/Cerious                                                          130
Singxer X-1 DC30W/Cerious/Recovery/DCiPur/iPur2          125
PUC2 Lite - USB power          110
Singxer F-1  Stock feed                110
Breeze/Cerious Graph/WBT RCA Nexgen          109
Breeze DU-U8 with Cerious Graphene              108
Breeze DU-U8 (Talema version)                        100
Breeze DU-U8 (BingZi version)          95
Hydra Z with LPS                                     92
Melodious MX-U8 (upgraded caps)           85
Melodious MX-U8 (stock)          81
Gustard U12 (upgraded caps)                  76
Gustard U12 stock             72
iDAC DAC2 (used as a DDC)                    65
Musiland USB3.0 US Dragon          65
M2Tech EVO with LPS          60
Audiophileo 2  USB Power           50
M2Tech Hiface                    40

Thanks Mr Underhill! Please, let us know how you come along with the Breeze DU-U8. Best, nbpf

Thanks +1. Great! 

Mr Underhill posted:

Innocent Bystander posted:

Richard Dane has been testing the Gustard as an interface to nDAC - seaching the forum should find info so far.

i'm not sure how the Gustard can change its character with different types of music?

Hi Innocent,

I don't think it does, I just think it is evident with certain types of music. A friend popped over the other day and said, 'The dynamics are there, the detail is there but it isn't quiet timing.'; this was with Led Zepp. That was his way of interpreting what we were hearing. I had heard the same, and that is what I tried to express above.

Further - I always find it interesting when people ask for advice, or render it, without understanding peoples musical taste, I think these things do matter and that certain equipment is better for certain genres. As Richard is using the U12 in a Naim system I would imagine his views are more to the point in this instance. My aim was for my post above NOT to be taken as an unequivocal recommendation. What I find MORE interesting is that it uniformly sounds good with Quboz, but not so with Rock/Pop from my NAS; I can only report what I am hearing.

M

Further:

Over the last couple of days I have played with a couple of things: microRendu modes and cables.

Over all I still think that the best, leaving Roon to one side, is Minimserver (MPD/DLNA) controlled by Kazoo.

I then took my Mark Grant Oyaide SPDIF cable, which I use with my NS01, and plugged that between my Gustard U12 & Bel Canto 3.5vb. Comparing this to the VdH AES is interesting - there is a subtle but definite difference; asked one of my daughters to do a blind listening test and she consistently picks it too.

The AES sounds slightly sat upon, rolled off. The Oyaide sounds fractionally brighter, but also seems to allow what is happening in the bass/treble to come through more clearly. This is all very fractional, but hey, that is the name of the game.

So, the Oyaide is better? Actually I think the AES is better for Quboz and the Oyaide for my local files.

M

Audio Breeze (with Talema) & Gustard U12

The Breeze comes in a similarly sized box to the Gustard, but with a power switch and probably doesn't feel quiet as well made.

In terms of sound quality the Audio Breeze DU-U8 (AB) in my system delivers dynamics and a wider soundstage. The music does grab you and makes you listen. So a straightforward slam dunk?

Not quite. The AB takes my system closer to the edge. CD based music is more likely to tip into the uncomfortable. The Gustard is easier in the ear, but less detailed and exciting.

In fact I have returned the AB as there is an issue with occasional pops that I find distracting. Rather than replace it I have decided to go the whole hog and buy a Mutec MC-3+USB.

Would I have kept the AB if not for the pops? Oh yes. I would have set up an alternate listening route to address the problem files.

M