NAP 250.2 getting DR'ed later in the week

I've recently upgraded my 250 to DR and though the plusses (well articulated in earlier posts) clearly and significantly outweigh the minuses, I do think it there is a change in balance that I'm not completely adjusted to / completely happy with.  Used with 252 and SCDR by the way.  Now SC to SCDR was an unambiguously beneficial, though more subtle, upgrade!

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

GraemeH posted:

The thing I notice, as well as all the observations above, is the w i d t h of the soundstage - way beyond the outside face of my S400's now. Listening to 'Sheep' from 'Animals' and the keyboard sounds both convincingly real and very holographic.

Lovely,

G

Graeme - one thing I find with the 250.2 is the sound stage opens up and comes forward into the room as well as widening - I love this and really gives space and air  around instrumentation in the mix and the speakers just seem to disappear  - I assume the 250DR does this as well but somehow better? Yes Animals is great - but The Wall even has sounds appearing to come from outside of the room - I know they used some special techniques when recording it - but it really shines with the 250.2 - and I assume still with the DR?

True - it did take the Hugo as a source and 252 as a NAC  to really encourage the 250.2 to do this - perhaps the DR will do this with lesser sources? Thoughts?

S

I will play 'The Wall' at the w/e Simon and report back. 

With regard to 'lesser sources' I couldn't say as I'm now using a Hugo TT direct via Chord Sig. TA direct into the 250DR. Plenty front to back space but mainly, as NIGELB notes, that instruments and voices very clearly have their own space around them. Everything sounds real.

The 250DR is a very very big upgrade, no question. Hugely musical.

G

Thanks chaps for the replies

Foot tapper posted:

Did someone say, "inky blackness"?  

They'll be claiming that the 250DR makes the 250-2 "sound broken" next 

The cliché count has started...

I know, I know, it's hi hi reviewer bollocks-speak. But it's a nice way of describing the effect, and I use the term ironically of course. 

GraemeH posted:

With regard to 'lesser sources' I couldn't say as I'm now using a Hugo TT direct via Chord Sig. TA direct into the 250DR. Plenty front to back space but mainly, as NIGELB notes, that instruments and voices very clearly have their own space around them. Everything sounds real.

The 250DR is a very very big upgrade, no question. Hugely musical.

G

Graeme, did you happen to compare the Hugo TT/2550 DR (or 250.2) setup vs. TT/282/HC/250.2 before losing the 282? Any thoughts?

TIA

totemphile posted:

GraemeH posted:

With regard to 'lesser sources' I couldn't say as I'm now using a Hugo TT direct via Chord Sig. TA direct into the 250DR. Plenty front to back space but mainly, as NIGELB notes, that instruments and voices very clearly have their own space around them. Everything sounds real.

The 250DR is a very very big upgrade, no question. Hugely musical.

G

Graeme, did you happen to compare the Hugo TT/2550 DR (or 250.2) setup vs. TT/282/HC/250.2 before losing the 282? Any thoughts?

TIA

 

No I didn't. Didn't see a need for 2 preamps.

What I have now redistributes the value of my former s/h  ndac/555 282/SC 250.2 into new TT 250DR.

It sounds better...quite a bit better.

G

nigelb posted:

...I do think however that to get the very best out of the 252/250DR you might want to also consider SL cables. The interconnect first, then speaker cables. I have not yet gone to the SL DIN/XLR but I hope to audition this soon. I know these cables are expensive, but you simply don't get the very best from the 252/250DR by using stock cables and NACA5 IMHO...

Interesting re SLs.

Possibilities for me are: 250 to 252 (replacing stock cable); Hugo to 252 (replacing HiLine); speaker cable (replacing NACA 5).

Any suggested priority?

The received wisdom is SL interconnect first i.e. Hugo to 252 for you, then SL speaker cables and last the SL DIN to XLR (250 to 252). But there are no hard and fast rules it is just that most seem to get the biggest initial hit with the SLIC.

Thanks! That corresponds with the HiLine hit.

Useful to plan how to spend that lottery win when it comes along...

(Incidentally, Nigel, what is powering your NDS?)

I picked up the amp today and have been listening to my album Santana VI. So far it appears obvious the bass drivers are controlled more with a taut and fast bottom end. It suits my horn speakers because the 200 (bi-amp) controlling the midrange and high frequency is fast and dynamic, very fast, and now the 250DR seems to have that bit more control over the 15" bass drivers that the sound appears more balanced, focused and controlled.  I am expecting a run in period as per the experiences of other members, which will be interesting. I did like the sound of the 250.2, it seems to have had a great boogie factor if that makes sense, but so far I have no complaints on the new presentation. I can now say with confidence that after hearing a few brands today, most of which costs more than my Naim kit, I am actually surprised by how good Naim is for the money. I know, preaching to the converted, but I have not had the experience of hearing a lot of brands but boy I am glad I picked Naim.

GraemeH posted:

totemphile posted:

GraemeH posted:

With regard to 'lesser sources' I couldn't say as I'm now using a Hugo TT direct via Chord Sig. TA direct into the 250DR. Plenty front to back space but mainly, as NIGELB notes, that instruments and voices very clearly have their own space around them. Everything sounds real.

The 250DR is a very very big upgrade, no question. Hugely musical.

G

Graeme, did you happen to compare the Hugo TT/2550 DR (or 250.2) setup vs. TT/282/HC/250.2 before losing the 282? Any thoughts?

TIA

 

No I didn't. Didn't see a need for 2 preamps.

What I have now redistributes the value of my former s/h  ndac/555 282/SC 250.2 into new TT 250DR.

It sounds better...quite a bit better.

G

Interesting option.

Thanks

GraemeH posted:

totemphile posted:

GraemeH posted:

With regard to 'lesser sources' I couldn't say as I'm now using a Hugo TT direct via Chord Sig. TA direct into the 250DR. Plenty front to back space but mainly, as NIGELB notes, that instruments and voices very clearly have their own space around them. Everything sounds real.

The 250DR is a very very big upgrade, no question. Hugely musical.

G

Graeme, did you happen to compare the Hugo TT/2550 DR (or 250.2) setup vs. TT/282/HC/250.2 before losing the 282? Any thoughts?

TIA

 

No I didn't. Didn't see a need for 2 preamps.

What I have now redistributes the value of my former s/h  ndac/555 282/SC 250.2 into new TT 250DR.

It sounds better...quite a bit better.

G

Hi Graeme,

When you mentioned the Chord Hugo TT and NAP 250 DR combination is better, it appears that you are comparing it with the Naim DAC/555, NAC 282, Supercap, NAP 250.2.

It is unfortunate you didn't compare the Hugo TT / NAP 250 DR to the Hugo TT / NAC 282 / Supercap / 250.2. Otherwise, we would know if the Naim DAC or the NAC 282 is the bottleneck.

ryder. posted:

GraemeH posted:

totemphile posted:

GraemeH posted:

With regard to 'lesser sources' I couldn't say as I'm now using a Hugo TT direct via Chord Sig. TA direct into the 250DR. Plenty front to back space but mainly, as NIGELB notes, that instruments and voices very clearly have their own space around them. Everything sounds real.

The 250DR is a very very big upgrade, no question. Hugely musical.

G

Graeme, did you happen to compare the Hugo TT/2550 DR (or 250.2) setup vs. TT/282/HC/250.2 before losing the 282? Any thoughts?

TIA

 

No I didn't. Didn't see a need for 2 preamps.

What I have now redistributes the value of my former s/h  ndac/555 282/SC 250.2 into new TT 250DR.

It sounds better...quite a bit better.

G

Hi Graeme,

When you mentioned the Chord Hugo TT and NAP 250 DR combination is better, it appears that you are comparing it with the Naim DAC/555, NAC 282, Supercap, NAP 250.2.

It is unfortunate you didn't compare the Hugo TT / NAP 250 DR to the Hugo TT / NAC 282 / Supercap / 250.2. Otherwise, we would know if the Naim DAC or the NAC 282 is the bottleneck.

Should I go out and do the decent thing?

G

24 hours into my DR'd 250, though haven't had enough time to devote to it fully yet.

Anyway, so far so very very happy - listening with a big grin on my face. Initial inpression is that the bass is more authoritative without being OTT. And, as usual when I've made a major upgrade, I have that happy feeling of hearing more music. I'm a bit hopeless at analysing this stuff (or describing it analytically) - suffice to say that an evening's happy listening now awaits.

S-in-S - I'd really be quite surprised if the DR didn't make a favourable impression in your system as well...

GraemeH posted:

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

GraemeH posted:

The thing I notice, as well as all the observations above, is the w i d t h of the soundstage - way beyond the outside face of my S400's now. Listening to 'Sheep' from 'Animals' and the keyboard sounds both convincingly real and very holographic.

Lovely,

G

Graeme - one thing I find with the 250.2 is the sound stage opens up and comes forward into the room as well as widening - I love this and really gives space and air  around instrumentation in the mix and the speakers just seem to disappear  - I assume the 250DR does this as well but somehow better? Yes Animals is great - but The Wall even has sounds appearing to come from outside of the room - I know they used some special techniques when recording it - but it really shines with the 250.2 - and I assume still with the DR?

True - it did take the Hugo as a source and 252 as a NAC  to really encourage the 250.2 to do this - perhaps the DR will do this with lesser sources? Thoughts?

S

I will play 'The Wall' at the w/e Simon and report back. 

With regard to 'lesser sources' I couldn't say as I'm now using a Hugo TT direct via Chord Sig. TA direct into the 250DR. Plenty front to back space but mainly, as NIGELB notes, that instruments and voices very clearly have their own space around them. Everything sounds real.

The 250DR is a very very big upgrade, no question. Hugely musical.

G

Sorry for the late response Simon. 'The Wall' has had a complete listen and it has a massive front-to-back and side-to-side soundstage. Just when you think you have the size of it fixed in your mind, something comes from further back or wider than expected. 'The Trial' is awesome!

G

Either my ears or the amp has "burned in" (though I suspect it is the latter). The 250 DR has opened up and sounded quite different than it was two months ago. The presentation is now more delicate and there is more detail. And the bass sounds fuller, punchier and tighter. Overall a more satisfying listen.

The NAP 250 DR is a very competent amp. At times when I wanted to switch to the NAP 200 just to see how much of a "downgrade" in sound quality I would be getting, I couldn't bring myself to swap the amps as music sounded so good. Without swapping the amps, I can expect the 250 DR to be a much accomplished amp (than the NAP 200) in almost all areas. If the listener prefers a "light" and lean presentation, the NAP 200 will be "better".

I know there's always one but I'm a good few months in with my 250DR and I'm just not getting on with it at all. The bass is lean and not overly tuneful And the midband is a complete mess , it a very 2D sound all over there somewhere. I still have my old 250.2 as a reference in a second system and its in another league all together. There's bags of control weight in the bass and very tuneful indeed. Sadly I think will see if I can source a non DR nap300 to replace it with very soon. Maybe I'm a little old school for the new Naim sound. 

Have you checked you have the amp to speakers wired correctly ??  lean bass & messy mid range sound like it could be out of phase.     (sorry I know its basic but need to ask as I've done it myself)

Dingding posted:

I know there's always one but I'm a good few months in with my 250DR and I'm just not getting on with it at all. The bass is lean and not overly tuneful And the midband is a complete mess , it a very 2D sound all over there somewhere. I still have my old 250.2 as a reference in a second system and its in another league all together. There's bags of control weight in the bass and very tuneful indeed. Sadly I think will see if I can source a non DR nap300 to replace it with very soon. Maybe I'm a little old school for the new Naim sound. 

This is a little perplexing as a very satisfied 250DR owner and the unending praise this unit receives on here. The 250DR does sound different to the 250.2 but sooo much better to these ears and to the ears of almost all others who have done this upgrade. Now of course it is possible that the 'new' sound is not to your liking and as you have had it for a few months it should be sufficiently run in. But maybe something else is awry as I really don't recognise your description of the sound of the 250DR. You don't mention the rest of your system in your profile, care to share (including cables, supports etc)?

I have checked all the cables etc and it's all in phase. System is NDS, 552, both dr and spendor d7s. 

Dingding posted:

I know there's always one but I'm a good few months in with my 250DR and I'm just not getting on with it at all. The bass is lean and not overly tuneful And the midband is a complete mess , it a very 2D sound all over there somewhere. I still have my old 250.2 as a reference in a second system and its in another league all together. There's bags of control weight in the bass and very tuneful indeed. Sadly I think will see if I can source a non DR nap300 to replace it with very soon. Maybe I'm a little old school for the new Naim sound. 

Nothing is for everyone - and it's our differences that make us interesting.

Have you had your dealer verify everything in your system/room is working properly?  If it is, sell the 250DR and move on. 

Yes just let everything is well there. I think it's just not for me really.  I have many options and love what the dr did with the rest of the system so will keep my eyes out for a older power amp. I do wonder if I'm alone on this one. 

Well you have some serious kit and if the 250.2 worked well with the 552 and the d7s, then the 250DR should be even better. If you have not done so already, you might want to discuss this with your dealer and invite them around to hear what you are hearing. If after this the dealer is satisfied then maybe the 250DR simply isn't for you. The 552 would of course benefit from a 300 (DR or non-DR). An extended home demo though would avoid any future pitfalls. 

Dingding posted:

I know there's always one but I'm a good few months in with my 250DR and I'm just not getting on with it at all. The bass is lean and not overly tuneful And the midband is a complete mess , it a very 2D sound all over there somewhere. I still have my old 250.2 as a reference in a second system and its in another league all together. There's bags of control weight in the bass and very tuneful indeed. Sadly I think will see if I can source a non DR nap300 to replace it with very soon. Maybe I'm a little old school for the new Naim sound. 

Similarly I am surprised at the outcome of your findings though I accept that fact that results can vary with systems and listening preferences. Having said that, I am particularly curious on your comment about the lean bass and 2-dimensionality of the amp. Perhaps I am not in the right position to judge as I do not have experience with the 250 , but I got the exact opposite experience switching from the 200 to the 250DR. The sound is full and 3-dimensional, and the bass is full. The 200 is lean and thin sounding in the bass and is 2-D in comparison, a more lightweight presentation compared to the 250DR.

Cables can alter the bass as I recently found out. I tried an aftermarket one on the Hicap DR and it reduced the bass intensity and made the system sound leaner. Perhaps check or try other cables if you have some lying around. Power cords and interconnect.