Nac-N 272 review

Huge posted:

Taken from the HiFiNews review of the Nac-N 272, as referenced on the Naim website...

Jon Green, Naim’s Principal Electronics Engineer, has been with the company for three years, following spells with Philips, Cyrus and IAG. Asked where the NAC-N 272 sits in the Naim preamp hierarchy, he explained that ‘the model number should indicate where it’s positioned, but with the addition of an external PSU it’s seriously good.’

That's also a bit Delphic. At first I thought "ok, so slightly below a 282, that sounds about right". But by that logic a 252 is further below which obviously isn't the case. So is he implying its pre is between 252 and 282 quality, but with a wink to say an XPS will make it rival the former?

As I say, Delphic. Possibly deliberately so.  I'm of the view that a reasonably commercial enterprise wouldn't deliberately render obsolete products it still wants to sell - so logic & pricing would have it fit well below the 282 and Ndac, but above the 202 and DAC v1 or (almost) no-one would buy it.

All accepting of course that different people's listening experience and space needs are different.  And I'd imagine the relief of anyone previously being told to reduce box numbers adds something, consciously or otherwise, to the perceived quality.

We do get hung up though on "better".  In relation to what?  Of course it's good to discuss but there will never be a conclusive answer.  It would be more constructive by accepting they are different and seeking to articulate why?  

Regards,

Lindsay

I think Jon Green's comment was referring to the NAC-N272's heirarchy in relation to other streamer/pre-amps - i.e. the NAC-N172.  

The pre-amp model numbers are not numbered hierarchically.

Fair enough. I'd hope most people would've assumed that from the price!  Although I'm sure the question would still have been posed and happily discussed here...

The review reads as though written by an eight year old; featherweight and totally banal. How do people get paid to write this stuff? And why is everyone so fixated on where everything sits relative to everything else? I love listening to my 272 and don't give a monkey's whether it's better than a 282, 202, a £1,000 Dac or a bag of nails. 

Richard Dane posted:

I think Jon Green's comment was referring to the NAC-N272's heirarchy in relation to other streamer/pre-amps - i.e. the NAC-N172.  

The pre-amp model numbers are not numbered hierarchically.

Then he has avoided answering the "real" question, and quite diplomatically, so

I don't think he can answer the question though as any answer will be politically incorrect and is bound to create issues.

There is an implied endorsement - the 202 was never good sounding when paired with a 250.2 or a 300, and that would have been called a Mullet.

Yet Naim does state that the 272 can be used with a 200DR,250 DR and 300 DR.

I have heard 272/250DR many times, it is a good product in the Naim hierarchy, and at brand new prices, NDX, 282/HCDR/250DR is very very expensive proposition, and maybe not that much better, we could be entering into the land of diminishing returns?

by comparison 272/250DR is all the Naim system one could need, and add an XPSDR, and easily a Hi-fi for life, and at still sensible prices. I have personally heard a 272/250 DR drive big hi-end speakers like Sonus Faber Olympica 2, and Proac D40R without breaking a sweat. That is some achievement !

Naim must have realized that it just became too much to pay for XPSDR for an NDX and then an HCDR for a 282. 

I would not get too worked up about comments like 272 isn't as good as a 202, or what hi-fi remarks about what the worth of the preamp section is or the DAC section. That is hardly the point of why Naim made the 272 in the first place. And then which preamp and DAC are what hi-fi comparing to. What criteria? Clarity? Soundstage? Pace and Rhythm ? Musicality? Timing? And the numbers are deliberately somehow arranged so that the total of 3300 GBP isn't exceeded, how convenient, or how politically correct. 

When I tested the 272 at home with my 250DR I was very pleasantly surprised how musical it sounded, and how huge was the soundstage, with 3D effect, I really did not expect it at all. It indeed exceeded all my expectations and had me wondering why I bought a 282 rather than the 272.

a 202 or a 282 is only as good as a source connected to it, and when someone buys a 272, they are getting everything already optimized by Naim, thought out, plug and play, no earthing issues to undermine the system (if non Naim sources are used), and a very good, well balanced system.

The only reason I bought a 282 instead of a 272 is because I had a Hicap DR already, but starting from scratch, it would well be a 272 with a 200 DR or 250 DR (if it were available in 2010).

I find this review much truer to facts than hiperhyped unreal opinions.

So sorry for some of you Who are avoiding,  only now , any comparo as it has exposed the very touchy nature. 

Antonio - the review says "There are only two things you need to know about the Naim NAC-N 272: it’s a fully featured streaming preamp and it sounds lovely"

By the way there isn't a single 272 owner that regrets their purchase.

Is there some obsession and need to compare the 272 with the all analog preamps like 202 and 282.

Surely one can buy whatever they like? 

Oh dear  never meant that ,I thought it was clear enough .it s just some have retreated now , the same Who not so long ago did and hyped comparoes.

Just enjoy 

I own 202, 282 and heard 272 many times at my home, the 272 is closer to a 282.

enjoy your music though that is what it is all about, surely?

Naim still offers 202, 282 and now 272, people are free to buy what they like and can afford?

I think 272 is product mainly aimed at the competition rather than die hard fans

thus the pricing vs other products in the range

it offers VFM vs any other naim combo of separetes

it is a cleaver more to gain more fallowers

you can not run a company with 3000 naim forum members who are willing to upgrade and buy expensive PSs like us

There was a heated debate over Dave, which is a pre and Dac for 8000£

it offers a very good value compare to top end Naim components with PSs, with very good reviews and hype around it

so Naim had to compete with this reality and still take into consideration of pricing/quality of the existing line, this is the reason of silince about the hyerarchy, what do you want to hear? "Yea it is almost same as 282+NDX? But we love you very much for paying the double, you are our financesor cult members, who else going to pay 6000£ for power supply" 

so dont let the price  tag fool you, it is a better sounding pre/streamer than 200s, i tested, listened and bought it when i could go with 282 way also, maybe 282 is far better this i dont know! 

Analog, Not much to worry I've been here and owned Naim for looonger than you think.

And what's more... I'm not touchy at all.

 So no need to edit repeatedly your comments especially the harder ones. 

analogmusic posted:

Richard Dane posted:

I think Jon Green's comment was referring to the NAC-N272's heirarchy in relation to other streamer/pre-amps - i.e. the NAC-N172.  

The pre-amp model numbers are not numbered hierarchically.

Then he has avoided answering the "real" question, and quite diplomatically, so

I don't think he can answer the question though as any answer will be politically incorrect and is bound to create issues.

There is an implied endorsement - the 202 was never good sounding when paired with a 250.2 or a 300, and that would have been called a Mullet.

Yet Naim does state that the 272 can be used with a 200DR,250 DR and 300 DR.

I have heard 272/250DR many times, it is a good product in the Naim hierarchy, and at brand new prices, NDX, 282/HCDR/250DR is very very expensive proposition, and maybe not that much better, we could be entering into the land of diminishing returns?

by comparison 272/250DR is all the Naim system one could need, and add an XPSDR, and easily a Hi-fi for life, and at still sensible prices. I have personally heard a 272/250 DR drive big hi-end speakers like Sonus Faber Olympica 2, and Proac D40R without breaking a sweat. That is some achievement !

Naim must have realized that it just became too much to pay for XPSDR for an NDX and then an HCDR for a 282. 

I would not get too worked up about comments like 272 isn't as good as a 202, or what hi-fi remarks about what the worth of the preamp section is or the DAC section. That is hardly the point of why Naim made the 272 in the first place. And then which preamp and DAC are what hi-fi comparing to. What criteria? Clarity? Soundstage? Pace and Rhythm ? Musicality? Timing? And the numbers are deliberately somehow arranged so that the total of 3300 GBP isn't exceeded, how convenient, or how politically correct. 

When I tested the 272 at home with my 250DR I was very pleasantly surprised how musical it sounded, and how huge was the soundstage, with 3D effect, I really did not expect it at all. It indeed exceeded all my expectations and had me wondering why I bought a 282 rather than the 272.

a 202 or a 282 is only as good as a source connected to it, and when someone buys a 272, they are getting everything already optimized by Naim, thought out, plug and play, no earthing issues to undermine the system (if non Naim sources are used), and a very good, well balanced system.

The only reason I bought a 282 instead of a 272 is because I had a Hicap DR already, but starting from scratch, it would well be a 272 with a 200 DR or 250 DR (if it were available in 2010).

 

Like an irritating fly that just won't go away until your head wants to explode!

What was the comment I read the other day?................ "That Was Absolute Twaddle" I didn't get it initially but then it dawned on me. I wish i'd thought of that as so apt!!

You do appear to have stirred considerable emotions amongst the forum over the past few days anaologmusic, but fair play, you have the skin of an old rhinosnorus so I bow to your resilience under fire! Keep it up old chap.

It's been dull whilst you've been away in the US wasting the time of the dealers over there. Will DAVE really take up residence on your rack or is he just someone who pops in when your not at home?

Antonio I do understand where you are coming from, but please be a little sensitive, some people paid 3300 GBP for 272, and are happy with it, so kindly no need to "piss" over their feelings by trying to compare with 202 and ND5XS.

As I said 6 years ago, I would have bought it right away. Now I am on the way to a 252 or 552 so different expectations.

Hungryhalibut posted:

The review reads as though written by an eight year old; featherweight and totally banal. How do people get paid to write this stuff? And why is everyone so fixated on where everything sits relative to everything else? I love listening to my 272 and don't give a monkey's whether it's better than a 282, 202, a £1,000 Dac or a bag of nails. 

Like this. The secret to being happy and enjoying the music.

My dealer hadn't ordered a 272 before he retired so hearing it is something I still have to look forward to.

musicnuttyboy posted:

Will DAVE really take up residence on your rack or is he just someone who pops in when your not at home?

I'll let you know how I get on with my plans to buy Dave, when you let me know that you have bought a real Naim PSU like XPS DR, or 555DR instead of the third party one you are using.

If you feel uncomfortable old chap, have some prune juice. 

Reasonable enough?

There is another HiFi forum which will be quite well known among members of this one. I rarely read it, because so many posts degenerate into tedious and often ill-informed criticism of both equipment and other forum members. There seems to be a small number of people who are currently dragging this forum down to the same level. I find this very tedious, and suggest that some moderation might be in order.  

While one can moderate when people are offensive, can one moderate when they are merely tedious?

ChrisSU posted:

There is another HiFi forum which will be quite well known among members of this one. I rarely read it, because so many posts degenerate into tedious and often ill-informed criticism of both equipment and other forum members. There seems to be a small number of people who are currently dragging this forum down to the same level. I find this very tedious, and suggest that some moderation might be in order.  

+1000

there was an enjoyable thread about Dave that similarly started to degenerate earlier today, and was pulled at the request of the originator. I would hope that the moderators identify and take appropriate action against the contributors who persist in turning interesting and informative threads into slanging matches. Reasoned argument and presentation of sometimes very different views, hopefully with supporting reasons/evidence, are the stuff of enjoyable learning and reading, but aggressive behaviour towards other posters in my view is never justifiable or acceptable.

Hungryhalibut posted:

While one can moderate when people are offensive, can one moderate when they are merely tedious?

Sounds like a dangerous precedent to me 

ChrisSU posted:

There is another HiFi forum which will be quite well known among members of this one. I rarely read it, because so many posts degenerate into tedious and often ill-informed criticism of both equipment and other forum members. There seems to be a small number of people who are currently dragging this forum down to the same level. I find this very tedious, and suggest that some moderation might be in order.  

+1 Agreed !

The Integrity of the Forum is at stake!

Didn't  catch the +1000

+1001 Agreed!

Hungryhalibut posted:

While one can moderate when people are offensive, can one moderate when they are merely tedious?

The offensive bits are the most tedious. That's it, I'm off for a glass of prune juice.

Innocent Bystander posted:

ChrisSU posted:

There is another HiFi forum which will be quite well known among members of this one. I rarely read it, because so many posts degenerate into tedious and often ill-informed criticism of both equipment and other forum members. There seems to be a small number of people who are currently dragging this forum down to the same level. I find this very tedious, and suggest that some moderation might be in order.  

+1000

there was an enjoyable thread about Dave that similarly started to degenerate earlier today, and was pulled at the request of the originator. I would hope that the moderators identify and take appropriate action against the contributors who persist in turning interesting and informative threads into slanging matches. Reasoned argument and presentation of sometimes very different views, hopefully with supporting reasons/evidence, are the stuff of enjoyable learning and reading, but aggressive behaviour towards other posters in my view is never justifiable or acceptable.

Absolutely. One should only write on a forum what one would say face to face. It's only Hifi, it's not like it's anything important, and life's too short to be grumpy. 

ChrisSU posted:

Hungryhalibut posted:

While one can moderate when people are offensive, can one moderate when they are merely tedious?

The offensive bits are the most tedious. That's it, I'm off for a glass of prune juice.

I find the tedious posts the most offensive. I'm off for a whisky and ginger ale.

james n posted:

Leatherneck posted:

I'd rate the DAC section in the N272 w/555PS DR below the one in my CDX2.2.  The CD player is more organic.  I wish I had kept my nDAC.

Why did you buy it if it wasn't as good / better ?

I wish I knew, you were getting rid of the Ndac!

Take care Bud.

Allante93!