Flat Cap XS / Nait XS2

Posted by: ThatsNotMyNaim on 24 August 2016

I thought I'd post my findings on the Flat Cap XS with Nait XS2 as a lot of what I read on the web before hand didn't really guide me. I have it on loan for a month for curiosity purposes. And I know curiosity killed the cat... before anyone says so.

Granted it's only been on 3 hours and it's a brand new cap.

System: iMac (Audirvana WAVs) > Chord 2Qute (+ External PSU)  > Proac 118. (Chord Shawline & Chord Odyssey Cables). Smallish 4.5 x 3.2m room. 

Bare in mind I am looking for more subtly, refinement, smoother and easier sound. A little more hifi air. Comfortable sound. Most of my music is 80s. Talk Talk, Sade, Everything But The Girl, Enya, Paul Simon, Sting etc... and some Jazz. Moody, evening music. 

Initial thoughts: Music is much easier to listen to/relax into. Much more subtle. Slightly bigger/wider soundstage that surrounds you more... but a very comfortable increase. I don't like OTT. Cap has calmed things down. Less top end sharpness. I'm not cringing anywhere near as much. Less effort required. Far fewer 'screetchy' moments.

Music is more natural (less metallic) and quite a bit more atmospheric (swirly - feels like a good word). Enya's vocals rise and flow more fluidily and the background instruments are more part of the musical flow. Enya's voice is haunting now (as it should be). Voices have lost a lot of their harsh edge. Not all of it but much, much smoother. Less invasive. Fuller, more real voices generally. Less recessive and thin than they were. But not too forward. Could still be a little smoother if i was to be fussy.

Generally the listening experience is easier and more enjoyable I find. I get a bit irritable with the bare XS2 at times (a bit lively). It has definitely taken things a step back in it's composure. Given a little sedative. Which is what I am looking for. More refinement. So I can slip into the music and chill out. But it's more rousing and musical too though. 

The notes I read about space between layers was accurate. Which helps engage me more I find. There is definitely more 'air' if that's your thing. More presence of subtle background tones.

And bonus... low volume listening is much nicer. Detailed, defined and still carries the tune. My neighbours will be happy. 

Bass is fantastically controlled now. As good I've experienced to date. Very very minimal room reverb. If I think where I was when I started in April, this is a far cry.

With snappier albums (China Crisis - Flaunt The Imperfection) the music is more together and flows better. Better timing and rhythm. Little percusive elements pop out more and sound more natural and fuller. A deeper, fuller bassline too. Though, and maybe a big though for some, a teeny weeny little feeling of pace is lost I think. Not surprising as things are calmer. But I found the bare XS2 hurried and excitable a little. Preference, if you can deal with the sharp edges of the bare XS2.

Even at this early stage I certainly don't feel like I've lost anything of note. Balance is still great. Character and sonic signature all remain in place. 

I'm loving the extra refinement and delicacy that's it's brought and enjoying the music much more. Feels more alive but in a refined, calmer way. I was worried it much make it sound like a bigger kid on crack. But it's grown up. And stopped driving too fast!

I'm told it will improve further. Whether it's worth the 1k (inc Snaic) or better than a Hi Cap (or other) in this system/room is still to be seen.

I'll update in a couple of weeks when it's settled more and I've listened to more music.

After this I will be trying a Hi Cap and a little something else. I've also got a Hugo and a V1 coming having never heard a Naim brand Dac. 

I'm going to do Supernait test too. XS2 + cap vs SN2 will be most interesting. 

By the way already i feel the XS2+Flat Cap is a margin ahead of the Sonneteer Alabaster for my liking. Even bare the XS2 felt more nicely balanced and darker. I like dark. :-) 

Cheers

Adam

 

Posted on: 25 August 2016 by joerand

Looks like you have a lot of demos on the horizon and from your description it sounds like you're listening to the 'right' components of the musical presentation and taking your time - all good! Good luck with your ventures, continue to take your time with each, and I hope you find the best mix and match. All I'd add is that for the HC demo go for the DR'd version and also consider trying NACA5 versus Chord Odyssey.

Posted on: 26 August 2016 by Innocent Bystander

I note you're using the 2Qute, which is derived from the Hugo, I gather essentially removing the portability and headphone capability, but also adding galvanic isolation. The Hugo you say you'll try does need isolation/RF filtering if driven from a computer source like Mac Mini, so I would expect to sound worse unless you use something in between to achieve that (Gustard U12 is popular, but there are other solution: it is removal of electrical/RF noise that is needed, not jitter removal as the asynchronous Hugo reclocks). And if you do try an isolator with the Hugo it would be worth trying same on the 2Qute to see if that improves (or worsens), and indeed for completeness, with and without on the Naim DAC as well.

Posted on: 26 August 2016 by ThatsNotMyNaim
Innocent Bystander posted:

I note you're using the 2Qute, which is derived from the Hugo, I gather essentially removing the portability and headphone capability, but also adding galvanic isolation. The Hugo you say you'll try does need isolation/RF filtering if driven from a computer source like Mac Mini, so I would expect to sound worse unless you use something in between to achieve that (Gustard U12 is popular, but there are other solution: it is removal of electrical/RF noise that is needed, not jitter removal as the asynchronous Hugo reclocks). And if you do try an isolator with the Hugo it would be worth trying same on the 2Qute to see if that improves (or worsens), and indeed for completeness, with and without on the Naim DAC as well.

Useful. Thanks. I didn't know that the Hugo was absent of GI. That's a pain as I have the hugo for only a week. 

Have you compared the 2Qute vs the Hugo?

Posted on: 26 August 2016 by ThatsNotMyNaim
joerand posted:

Looks like you have a lot of demos on the horizon and from your description it sounds like you're listening to the 'right' components of the musical presentation and taking your time - all good! Good luck with your ventures, continue to take your time with each, and I hope you find the best mix and match. All I'd add is that for the HC demo go for the DR'd version and also consider trying NACA5 versus Chord Odyssey.

Thanks Joe,

All noted.

I've spent a bit so far. But no more than the original system at this stage. The next spends need to be spot on. So time is what I am going to take.

My dealer has suggested listening to the new Classe amp too.

I have some NAC A5 coming with the NaimDac tomorrow.

Do you have any gripes with Odyssey? Out of interest?

Moderated post: I have removed reference to a company who have requested that neither they nor their products are mentioned or discussed here.

Posted on: 26 August 2016 by Innocent Bystander
ThatsNotMyNaim posted:
Innocent Bystander posted:

I note you're using the 2Qute, which is derived from the Hugo, I gather essentially removing the portability and headphone capability, but also adding galvanic isolation. The Hugo you say you'll try does need isolation/RF filtering if driven from a computer source like Mac Mini, so I would expect to sound worse unless you use something in between to achieve that (Gustard U12 is popular, but there are other solution: it is removal of electrical/RF noise that is needed, not jitter removal as the asynchronous Hugo reclocks). And if you do try an isolator with the Hugo it would be worth trying same on the 2Qute to see if that improves (or worsens), and indeed for completeness, with and without on the Naim DAC as well.

Useful. Thanks. I didn't know that the Hugo was absent of GI. That's a pain as I have the hugo for only a week. 

Have you compared the 2Qute vs the Hugo?

No, I bought the Hugo before I was even aware of the 2Qute's existence. I first used Hugo with ND5XS, which was an improvement over ND5XS alone (and indeed over ND5XS+XP5XS), then I tried with MM/Audirvana, which was not as good, and unexpected given what I'd heard, but reading more before I gave up on MM/Aud led me to take a punt on buying a Gustard, and the result was great.

Posted on: 26 August 2016 by Innocent Bystander

If you want to move up relative to the 2Qute, then maybe the one to consider is the HugoTT, which does have galvanic isolation, and I have tried it omitting the Gustard and it did improve on the Hugo, though it is more expensive and whether right for your system is a matter only you can decide. (The ultimate of course is Dave, which is a real wow-factor step up, but at a real wow-factor of a price.) No preamp needed with any of these unless you have non-digital sources.

Posted on: 26 August 2016 by Mayor West
ThatsNotMyNaim posted:
Innocent Bystander posted:

I note you're using the 2Qute, which is derived from the Hugo, I gather essentially removing the portability and headphone capability, but also adding galvanic isolation. The Hugo you say you'll try does need isolation/RF filtering if driven from a computer source like Mac Mini, so I would expect to sound worse unless you use something in between to achieve that (Gustard U12 is popular, but there are other solution: it is removal of electrical/RF noise that is needed, not jitter removal as the asynchronous Hugo reclocks). And if you do try an isolator with the Hugo it would be worth trying same on the 2Qute to see if that improves (or worsens), and indeed for completeness, with and without on the Naim DAC as well.

Useful. Thanks. I didn't know that the Hugo was absent of GI. That's a pain as I have the hugo for only a week. 

Have you compared the 2Qute vs the Hugo?

Interestingly, despite the lack of galvanic isolation on Hugo, I still preferred it's performance via USB over the 2Qute.

Posted on: 26 August 2016 by ThatsNotMyNaim
Mayor West posted:
ThatsNotMyNaim posted:
Innocent Bystander posted:

I note you're using the 2Qute, which is derived from the Hugo, I gather essentially removing the portability and headphone capability, but also adding galvanic isolation. The Hugo you say you'll try does need isolation/RF filtering if driven from a computer source like Mac Mini, so I would expect to sound worse unless you use something in between to achieve that (Gustard U12 is popular, but there are other solution: it is removal of electrical/RF noise that is needed, not jitter removal as the asynchronous Hugo reclocks). And if you do try an isolator with the Hugo it would be worth trying same on the 2Qute to see if that improves (or worsens), and indeed for completeness, with and without on the Naim DAC as well.

Useful. Thanks. I didn't know that the Hugo was absent of GI. That's a pain as I have the hugo for only a week. 

Have you compared the 2Qute vs the Hugo?

Interestingly, despite the lack of galvanic isolation on Hugo, I still preferred it's performance via USB over the 2Qute.

Ooh, your experience sounds promising. For what reasons? I'll be seeing tomorrow anywya but good to know...

I'm holding out for more analogue/smoother high. Less sharp. Less metallic. High hopes! Ha

Posted on: 26 August 2016 by ThatsNotMyNaim
Innocent Bystander posted:
ThatsNotMyNaim posted:
Innocent Bystander posted:

I note you're using the 2Qute, which is derived from the Hugo, I gather essentially removing the portability and headphone capability, but also adding galvanic isolation. The Hugo you say you'll try does need isolation/RF filtering if driven from a computer source like Mac Mini, so I would expect to sound worse unless you use something in between to achieve that (Gustard U12 is popular, but there are other solution: it is removal of electrical/RF noise that is needed, not jitter removal as the asynchronous Hugo reclocks). And if you do try an isolator with the Hugo it would be worth trying same on the 2Qute to see if that improves (or worsens), and indeed for completeness, with and without on the Naim DAC as well.

Useful. Thanks. I didn't know that the Hugo was absent of GI. That's a pain as I have the hugo for only a week. 

Have you compared the 2Qute vs the Hugo?

No, I bought the Hugo before I was even aware of the 2Qute's existence. I first used Hugo with ND5XS, which was an improvement over ND5XS alone (and indeed over ND5XS+XP5XS), then I tried with MM/Audirvana, which was not as good, and unexpected given what I'd heard, but reading more before I gave up on MM/Aud led me to take a punt on buying a Gustard, and the result was great.

More bloody boxes. Ha.

If the hugo shows positive signs over the 2qute tomorrow then the option to improve that further with a Gustard or similar would be ideal. 

Thanks for your input.

 

Posted on: 26 August 2016 by Mayor West
ThatsNotMyNaim posted:
Mayor West posted:
ThatsNotMyNaim posted:
Innocent Bystander posted:

I note you're using the 2Qute, which is derived from the Hugo, I gather essentially removing the portability and headphone capability, but also adding galvanic isolation. The Hugo you say you'll try does need isolation/RF filtering if driven from a computer source like Mac Mini, so I would expect to sound worse unless you use something in between to achieve that (Gustard U12 is popular, but there are other solution: it is removal of electrical/RF noise that is needed, not jitter removal as the asynchronous Hugo reclocks). And if you do try an isolator with the Hugo it would be worth trying same on the 2Qute to see if that improves (or worsens), and indeed for completeness, with and without on the Naim DAC as well.

Useful. Thanks. I didn't know that the Hugo was absent of GI. That's a pain as I have the hugo for only a week. 

Have you compared the 2Qute vs the Hugo?

Interestingly, despite the lack of galvanic isolation on Hugo, I still preferred it's performance via USB over the 2Qute.

Ooh, your experience sounds promising. For what reasons? I'll be seeing tomorrow anywya but good to know...

I'm holding out for more analogue/smoother high. Less sharp. Less metallic. High hopes! Ha

Yeah you've hit the nail on the head already there, that's pretty much what I would expect you to hear.

2Qute was initially a mindblowing upgrade for me but in my system it eventually just seemed a tad harsh and excitable. Replacing it with the Hugo seemed to retain everything I liked about the 2Qute but with added smoothness and delicacy. It was a much more pleasant listen for me. I'll be interested to hear how you go on

Having seen posts from the likes of Innocent Bystander and others on the inferiority of USB compared to SPDIF on the Hugo however, I am currently trialling a Gustard U12 USB/SPDIF converter to see if it makes any improvements.

Posted on: 26 August 2016 by ThatsNotMyNaim

That would be more than enough of an improvement for me right now.

Will let you know how I get on. 

Cheers

Adam

 

Posted on: 26 August 2016 by Innocent Bystander
Mayor West posted:
ThatsNotMyNaim posted:
Mayor West posted:

Interestingly, despite the lack of galvanic isolation on Hugo, I still preferred it's performance via USB over the 2Qute.

Ooh, your experience sounds promising. For what reasons? I'll be seeing tomorrow anywya but good to know...

I'm holding out for more analogue/smoother high. Less sharp. Less metallic. High hopes! Ha

Yeah you've hit the nail on the head already there, that's pretty much what I would expect you to hear.

2Qute was initially a mindblowing upgrade for me but in my system it eventually just seemed a tad harsh and excitable. Replacing it with the Hugo seemed to retain everything I liked about the 2Qute but with added smoothness and delicacy. It was a much more pleasant listen for me. I'll be interested to hear how you go on

Having seen posts from the likes of Innocent Bystander and others on the inferiority of USB compared to SPDIF on the Hugo however, I am currently trialling a Gustard U12 USB/SPDIF converter to see if it makes any improvements.

It'll be interesting to see how you find it: to me it was like lifting a veil that had been over the sound without the Gustard. Of course, the extent of any adverse  effect without the isolation will depend on the 'cleanliness' of the Mac's output, and how revealing is the rest of the system.

Posted on: 26 August 2016 by joerand
ThatsNotMyNaim posted:
joerand posted:

Looks like you have a lot of demos on the horizon and from your description it sounds like you're listening to the 'right' components of the musical presentation and taking your time - all good! Good luck with your ventures, continue to take your time with each, and I hope you find the best mix and match. All I'd add is that for the HC demo go for the DR'd version and also consider trying NACA5 versus Chord Odyssey.

Thanks Joe,

Do you have any gripes with Odyssey? Out of interest?

No gripes whatsoever with the Odyssey as it's all a matter of personal taste. Odyssey for me was polite overall and soft on the top end whereas I found NACA5 grittier and more musically involving. That's merely my room and my ears. You've got the NACA5 coming, so let your ears be the judge. Cheers!

Posted on: 26 August 2016 by Robiwan

Looks like you're XS2 is broken playing edgy without FC.?

Posted on: 27 August 2016 by Mayor West
Innocent Bystander posted:
Mayor West posted:
ThatsNotMyNaim posted:
Mayor West posted:

Interestingly, despite the lack of galvanic isolation on Hugo, I still preferred it's performance via USB over the 2Qute.

Ooh, your experience sounds promising. For what reasons? I'll be seeing tomorrow anywya but good to know...

I'm holding out for more analogue/smoother high. Less sharp. Less metallic. High hopes! Ha

Yeah you've hit the nail on the head already there, that's pretty much what I would expect you to hear.

2Qute was initially a mindblowing upgrade for me but in my system it eventually just seemed a tad harsh and excitable. Replacing it with the Hugo seemed to retain everything I liked about the 2Qute but with added smoothness and delicacy. It was a much more pleasant listen for me. I'll be interested to hear how you go on

Having seen posts from the likes of Innocent Bystander and others on the inferiority of USB compared to SPDIF on the Hugo however, I am currently trialling a Gustard U12 USB/SPDIF converter to see if it makes any improvements.

It'll be interesting to see how you find it: to me it was like lifting a veil that had been over the sound without the Gustard. Of course, the extent of any adverse  effect without the isolation will depend on the 'cleanliness' of the Mac's output, and how revealing is the rest of the system.

I've been pretty impressed so far but I'm going to give it a few more days before making concrete evaluations

Posted on: 27 August 2016 by ThatsNotMyNaim

Hello all.

I've just had a WOW moment with the Hugo. Excited.

It is sooooo much better than the Qute. It's so much more natural, so much more flow, so much more analogue. Music is an absolute joy. 

The harshness and metallic, digital nature I was experiencing the 2Qute has completely gone.

The Hugo is so impressive. Mayor West and Graeme were spot on.

By the way this is all with the standard USB provided. If you want musical. The Hugo is it.

Gustard next! Ha. 

:-) Happy happy

Posted on: 27 August 2016 by ThatsNotMyNaim

Oh and the flat cap xs is off. I didn't like it at all. XS2 feels better without.

Posted on: 27 August 2016 by Simon-in-Suffolk

Glad you are enjoying it - the Hugo and Naim go so well together  . The only downside is that you will soon start to take this level of performance for granted 

Posted on: 27 August 2016 by Innocent Bystander

Although this isn't the first time I've heard it said that Hugo is better than 2Qute, I'm puzzled as to why given that Chord said to me in answer to a query about the difference: "Using the same technology as found in Hugo, 2Qute has been designed for fixed system use and has a retail price of £995.00. It does not come with a remote. As this is a fixed system product, it has no digital volume control. With 2Qute you loose the headphone section, but gain Galvanic Isolation on the USB Input."  Maybe it is the output stage that makes the difference.

Isolation with Gustard may improve further if the source has significant RF interference. Next up after that try the Hugo TT!

Posted on: 27 August 2016 by Simon-in-Suffolk

IB - i think the battery regulator and especially the analogue output stage make a significant impact to the performance of the Hugo - seemingly very much so when connected to Naim.

Also worth remembering - almost by definition - that galvanic isolation does not prevent RFI - but it does stop ground modulation moving from one circuit to another - certainly important when connecting noisy computers to sensitive audio circuitry

 

Posted on: 27 August 2016 by ThatsNotMyNaim
Innocent Bystander posted:

Although this isn't the first time I've heard it said that Hugo is better than 2Qute, I'm puzzled as to why given that Chord said to me in answer to a query about the difference: "Using the same technology as found in Hugo, 2Qute has been designed for fixed system use and has a retail price of £995.00. It does not come with a remote. As this is a fixed system product, it has no digital volume control. With 2Qute you loose the headphone section, but gain Galvanic Isolation on the USB Input."  Maybe it is the output stage that makes the difference.

Isolation with Gustard may improve further if the source has significant RF interference. Next up after that try the Hugo TT!

I have no idea. I've been sat with my girlfriend listening to 8 tracks.

Xs2 + 2qute

Xs2+flatcap xs+2qute

Xs2+hugo

We are completely unanimous in our enjoyment and love of the hugo. And agree the flatcap destroys the xs2 husky character.

It's night and day between the qute and the hugo. Battery power has to be the reason. It's just so lovely to listen to and to know I haven't been going mad recently with complaints of sharpness and harshness.

All down to the Qute.

 

Posted on: 27 August 2016 by Innocent Bystander
ThatsNotMyNaim posted:
Innocent Bystander posted:

Although this isn't the first time I've heard it said that Hugo is better than 2Qute, I'm puzzled as to why given that Chord said to me in answer to a query about the difference: "Using the same technology as found in Hugo, 2Qute has been designed for fixed system use and has a retail price of £995.00. It does not come with a remote. As this is a fixed system product, it has no digital volume control. With 2Qute you loose the headphone section, but gain Galvanic Isolation on the USB Input."  Maybe it is the output stage that makes the difference.

Isolation with Gustard may improve further if the source has significant RF interference. Next up after that try the Hugo TT!

I have no idea. I've been sat with my girlfriend listening to 8 tracks.

Xs2 + 2qute

Xs2+flatcap xs+2qute

Xs2+hugo

We are completely unanimous in our enjoyment and love of the hugo. And agree the flatcap destroys the xs2 husky character.

It's night and day between the qute and the hugo. Battery power has to be the reason. It's just so lovely to listen to and to know I haven't been going mad recently with complaints of sharpness and harshness.

All down to the Qute.

 

Well, if nothing else you can settle on the Hugo as musical Nirvana, as many others have once they have heard! (Just don't audition Dave unless you r budget is big!)

Posted on: 27 August 2016 by Innocent Bystander
Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

IB - i think the battery regulator and especially the analogue output stage make a significant impact to the performance of the Hugo - seemingly very much so when connected to Naim.

Also worth remembering - almost by definition - that galvanic isolation does not prevent RFI - but it does stop ground modulation moving from one circuit to another - certainly important when connecting noisy computers to sensitive audio circuitry

 

Yes, I think you're right Simon, though I hadn't picked up on the battery aspect.

Posted on: 27 August 2016 by Mayor West
ThatsNotMyNaim posted:

Hello all.

I've just had a WOW moment with the Hugo. Excited.

It is sooooo much better than the Qute. It's so much more natural, so much more flow, so much more analogue. Music is an absolute joy. 

The harshness and metallic, digital nature I was experiencing the 2Qute has completely gone.

The Hugo is so impressive. Mayor West and Graeme were spot on.

By the way this is all with the standard USB provided. If you want musical. The Hugo is it.

Gustard next! Ha. 

:-) Happy happy

Fantastic, glad you're now happy!

I'm enjoying very pleasing results with a Gustard U12 at present but I think it is still settling in, so I would say it's definitely worth giving it a go.