nDAC really sings...

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Adam Zielinski posted:

Interesting. I can see why this may work - the internal nDAC power supplies feeds the digital sction of the nDAC.

Indeed but to my way of thinking the Powerline should have improved both feeds, but the sound lost some of its organic appealing signature with a Powerline on the aux digital feed. Perhaps this might also vary from environment to environment...but absolutely worth a try.

I found that a Powerline on the nDAC, even when the nDAC is fed by a 555PS, gave a performance benefit.   As Simon says, worth a try to see if you can hear a benefit. After all Powerlines aren't cheap.   

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Chag... posted:

I only have had a DR'd 555PS on nDAC and liked it a lot before going to NDS for more detailed, refined and airy, where nDAC seemed to be a bit more forward and immediate. I wonder sometimes in what terms some of you preferred non-DR 555PS to 555DR on nDAC.

Chag -

For me the nonDR 555PS helped the NDAC sound organic and appealing... The DR 555PS to made the NDAC sound more clean and detailed but less enjoyable or what perhaps might be said less 'musical'. However this was on the earlier firmware and might be different now. Interestingly I found the NDS sounded more 'musical' and enjoyable with the DR 555PS.

Simon

For a couple of years or so I felt the same way, preferring the noDR 555PS on my nDAC rather than the 555PSDR. The latter I found to be a too 'forced' in the bass and overly digital. My amp then was 282/nonDR SC/250.2.

However after some substantial improvements elsewhere in my system e.g. 552DR, 300DR, SL full loom, I found the position reversed with the 555PSDR then showing it's true potential.  I then got my 555PS serviced and DR'ed. So I'd say try both and decide which you prefer in your system.    

MDS posted:

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Chag... posted:

I only have had a DR'd 555PS on nDAC and liked it a lot before going to NDS for more detailed, refined and airy, where nDAC seemed to be a bit more forward and immediate. I wonder sometimes in what terms some of you preferred non-DR 555PS to 555DR on nDAC.

Chag -

For me the nonDR 555PS helped the NDAC sound organic and appealing... The DR 555PS to made the NDAC sound more clean and detailed but less enjoyable or what perhaps might be said less 'musical'. However this was on the earlier firmware and might be different now. Interestingly I found the NDS sounded more 'musical' and enjoyable with the DR 555PS.

Simon

For a couple of years or so I felt the same way, preferring the noDR 555PS on my nDAC rather than the 555PSDR. The latter I found to be a too 'forced' in the bass and overly digital. My amp then was 282/nonDR SC/250.2.

However after some substantial improvements elsewhere in my system e.g. 552DR, 300DR, SL full loom, I found the position reversed with the 555PSDR then showing it's true potential.  I then got my 555PS serviced and DR'ed. So I'd say try both and decide which you prefer in your system.    

With the current amp (it's actually a SuperNait2) 555 non-DR sounds better. If and whenI get around to upgrading I will certainly test a DR version.

Thanks for the tip!

(((echo))) Hello? Am I the only one here still using a bare nDAC after 5 years of ownership? (((echo)))

LOL!!!

And still loving it. 

Bye.

Stoik posted:

(((echo))) Hello? Am I the only one here still using a bare nDAC after 5 years of ownership? (((echo)))

LOL!!!

And still loving it. 

Bye.

NO No no ..

Stoik posted:

(((echo))) Hello? Am I the only one here still using a bare nDAC after 5 years of ownership? (((echo)))

LOL!!!

And still loving it. 

Bye.

There is nothing wrong with a 'bare' nDAC. It sounds very good - I felt that adding XPS to it offered very little sound improvement. PowerLine seems to have improved it more.

Only 555PS brought out some previously hidden talents

What people sometimes chose to forget, present company accepted,  is that Naim components that  work  without external power supplies but can  be upgraded by adding one, are   excellent at their bare price points, with some exceptions, which is a different subjective discussion. The DAC sounds to me worth every penny of it's asking price. Add a PS and the performance level increases accordingly.  I've been through the DAC from bare to 555PS. To my ears only the NDS will beat the latter, which is why the NDS was my first streamer. Before then there was no point for me.

Good point, Harry. I thoroughly enjoyed my nDAC when it was bare (and in an otherwise non-Naim system). I think it, the nDAC, offers terrific value for money, especially in light of the firmware update. 

Same here. Naim amps came later for me but Naim sources have been the default choice for much longer. Nothing like a crisp, tight Naim source to go with, in my case, a nice set of  Class A bottles.

MDS posted:

Geko posted:

My finding too.

NDac + XPS2 a bit underwhelming and almost preferred the NDac naked! I then added a pre-loved but serviced 555PS to my NDac with the recent software upgrade and the whole system went into orbit. Everything took on a holographic sense of realism with better PRAT and instrument timbre. I'm also using a CDX2.2 as the transport. I'd actually wondered if there was any further benefit from perhaps putting an XPS2 onto the CDX2 to provide a more stable supply? Yes, I know this then becomes a 4 box CDP but if it improves things further why not?

Geko - I've had a XP5XS powering my CDX2.2, used as a digital transport, since I bought it.  When I came to do this I already had a nDAC (then my only piece of Naim kit) and was feeding it from a Accuphase CD transport. I wanted to try an XPS on my nDAC.  My dealer brought one round and it sounded pretty good, but he brought round a CDX2.2 on the hunch that it might outperform my Accuphase transport. It did.  Of course, I then wanted both but my dealer persuaded to be patient as he wanted to try the newly released XP5XS on both i.e. the CDX2.2 and the nDAC.  when that was tried it was pretty clear that a four-box CDX2.2/XP5XS to nDAC/XP5XS outperformed the tradition three-box CDX2.2 to nDAC/XPS2.  I've had a four-box CD set-up ever since.

So a long way of saying 'yes' to your question but I would save a bit of money by putting a XP5XS on the CDX2.2 rather than an XPS2 as it seems that most of the sonic benefit comes from simply separating the PSU from the transport rather than the quality of that PSU.       

Interesting. I asked my dealer about a PS on the CDX2.2 (with 555PS and nDAC) and apparently Naim had told him there would be very little improvements as the PS is primarily powering the DAC stages. However, I do remember trying my CDX2.2 with my 555PS and you have disconnect the mains power to the CDX2, so the 555PS must be powering the transport as well in this mode?

Guess I'll just have to try an XPS5XS to see if I can hear any improvements. I am running both my nDAC and 555PS with powerlines and thought that both bits of kit got the typical powerline performance boost.

I have to say that It's a very potent and addictive front end. I had a musician over the other day and played him one of his own tracks. He said that he'd heard that track hundreds of times in the studio but had never heard it with so much emotion and realism. He was staggered that a domestic system sounded so much better than the studio!  

Most intriguing discussion I must say - I will need to try this one too: add a small PSU to a source running in a digital-out mode.

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Hi Adam, enjoy, your findings match my experiences too. The 555PS on the NDAC really is vital to fully enjoy the NDAC potential.

i would say the better your amps, the more accepting of lesser sources ithey appear to be in terms of making them sound enjoyable... I have found that pleasantly surprising and counter intuitive. That aside enjoy your NDAC, BTW I found Powerline into 555PS and the standard lead into the NDAC aux power subtly provided the best performance..

would you assume this is maybe why my N272 sounds better with my 300DR instead of my previous 250DR?...or I'm mis-reading your post

Geko posted:

MDS posted:

Geko posted:

My finding too.

NDac + XPS2 a bit underwhelming and almost preferred the NDac naked! I then added a pre-loved but serviced 555PS to my NDac with the recent software upgrade and the whole system went into orbit. Everything took on a holographic sense of realism with better PRAT and instrument timbre. I'm also using a CDX2.2 as the transport. I'd actually wondered if there was any further benefit from perhaps putting an XPS2 onto the CDX2 to provide a more stable supply? Yes, I know this then becomes a 4 box CDP but if it improves things further why not?

Geko - I've had a XP5XS powering my CDX2.2, used as a digital transport, since I bought it.  When I came to do this I already had a nDAC (then my only piece of Naim kit) and was feeding it from a Accuphase CD transport. I wanted to try an XPS on my nDAC.  My dealer brought one round and it sounded pretty good, but he brought round a CDX2.2 on the hunch that it might outperform my Accuphase transport. It did.  Of course, I then wanted both but my dealer persuaded to be patient as he wanted to try the newly released XP5XS on both i.e. the CDX2.2 and the nDAC.  when that was tried it was pretty clear that a four-box CDX2.2/XP5XS to nDAC/XP5XS outperformed the tradition three-box CDX2.2 to nDAC/XPS2.  I've had a four-box CD set-up ever since.

So a long way of saying 'yes' to your question but I would save a bit of money by putting a XP5XS on the CDX2.2 rather than an XPS2 as it seems that most of the sonic benefit comes from simply separating the PSU from the transport rather than the quality of that PSU.       

Interesting. I asked my dealer about a PS on the CDX2.2 (with 555PS and nDAC) and apparently Naim had told him there would be very little improvements as the PS is primarily powering the DAC stages. However, I do remember trying my CDX2.2 with my 555PS and you have disconnect the mains power to the CDX2, so the 555PS must be powering the transport as well in this mode?

Guess I'll just have to try an XPS5XS to see if I can hear any improvements. I am running both my nDAC and 555PS with powerlines and thought that both bits of kit got the typical powerline performance boost.

I have to say that It's a very potent and addictive front end. I had a musician over the other day and played him one of his own tracks. He said that he'd heard that track hundreds of times in the studio but had never heard it with so much emotion and realism. He was staggered that a domestic system sounded so much better than the studio!  

Geko - when my dealer advised to me to try a XP5XS on the CDX2.2 I recall him saying he had discussed the idea with his contacts at Salisbury. Maybe your dealer had different advice.

Mike

More and more intrigued...

Anyone tried the same with NDX?

greekspec2 posted:

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Hi Adam, enjoy, your findings match my experiences too. The 555PS on the NDAC really is vital to fully enjoy the NDAC potential.

i would say the better your amps, the more accepting of lesser sources ithey appear to be in terms of making them sound enjoyable... I have found that pleasantly surprising and counter intuitive. That aside enjoy your NDAC, BTW I found Powerline into 555PS and the standard lead into the NDAC aux power subtly provided the best performance..

would you assume this is maybe why my N272 sounds better with my 300DR instead of my previous 250DR?...or I'm mis-reading your post

Hi, with the term 'amp' I was referring to the NAC/NAP combo... However the 300DR is supposed to be a more capable amp than the 250DR so perhaps that is why it sounds better to you.