Tuner Nat 05 versus Nat 05 XS

Well I've never heard an O5 XS but the very original O5s (like mine)  had a Phillips head as opposed to the Sanyo configuration which I understand is used now and I have on authority that the original is a better performer over the later models.  But as for adding an HC or SC on the XS I wonder if anyone has ever tried?

Regards,

Lindsay

For clarification later 05s used an ALPS head.   I think I read that the 05XS used a Sanyo head but I wonder if that is true or perhaps confuse with something else I read.

The XS uses the ALPS head as well.  The Naim site says you can add a FC - not sure you can actually add a HC or SC?

I haven't compared NAT05 XS to NAT05. But:

If NAT05 XS = 7, NAT05 XS/FCXS = 7.5, NAT05 XS/HCDR = 9 and NAT05 XS/SCDR = 11 (HL and PL on all PSU).

Chag -

Chag,

NAT05 XS/SCDR = 11 (HL and PL on all PSU) < you tried this ?

When I had an 05, I was tempted by the new product and a chance to add an external PS (hicap and supercap would work BTW). I spoke to my dealer at the time about upgrading to the 05 XS but he said the difference was hardly noticeable and not worth the expense. If I really wanted an improvement, look for an 02 or 01.

I found an 02 for my friend and that was a major step up from the 05. But I finally got my 01 and that's where the true magic lies with FM radio - stunning. It is my best source. It plays music in a beguiling manner like nobody's business.

Arun

I have a NAT05 XS and I'm very happy with it. I would also be curious as to what improvement can be had from adding a power supply to it and which PS will work with it. The manual says it can be upgraded with a flat cap or hicap

Arun - strange.  I've heard PBs 01 so recognise how good it is but what I don't get is how.  After all I know Radio 3 use Denon CDPs amongst other stuff.  

Interesting - thanks for the 01 recommendation.  I never thought such an old model would beat the lastest Nat 05 XS with PS on.

Found the followings from the previous discussion, which is quite a differenct opinion. 

So now group A  = 01>02 > 05 and  Group B = 05XS > 05 from two different group of users.

Looks like my Nat 05 is the worst product in the hierarchy - lol.

"

To answer the original question, I've had all four products mentioned (Flatcaps 2 (and 2x) and XS, NAT05 (both matt and shiny!!) and NAT05XS.

My feelings are: 

a) the NAT05XS is far superior to the NAT05 and

b) I didn't gain much by connecting the FlatcapXS but

c) quality interconnects made a big difference.

"

The Strat (Fender) posted:

For clarification later 05s used an ALPS head.   I think I read that the 05XS used a Sanyo head but I wonder if that is true or perhaps confuse with something else I read.

what other brand of tuner also employ this ALPS head ?  are they very expensive ?  Anyone here own it ?  please share your experiences - thanks.

The XS also uses the ALPS tuner head

To clarify the tuner head issue: the very early NAT-05 had a Philips tuner head.  When the Philips became hard to source, the NAT05 was redesigned around an ALPS tuner head.    The easy check for the 05 users is how the “pre-set” LED on the tuner display behaves,  it will illuminate with the Philips head,  but although the pre-set LED is still on the display, it will not illuminate with the ALPS head.

PTCM posted:

Chag,

NAT05 XS/SCDR = 11 (HL and PL on all PSU) < you tried this ? 

Yes I did. Rather special indeed. After second thoughts, I had no PL on it at the time though.

Chag -

Chag... posted:

PTCM posted:

Chag,

NAT05 XS/SCDR = 11 (HL and PL on all PSU) < you tried this ? 

Yes I did. Rather special indeed. After second thoughts, I had no PL on it at the time though.

Chag -

Nice - that right there is probably the most luxurious radio combo in the world.  I wish you are in Hong Kong and lemme try it....

The "old" NAT05 sounds better than the new NAT05XS. Fuller and more lively. 

Robiwan posted:

The "old" NAT05 sounds better than the new NAT05XS. Fuller and more lively. 

you mean 01 or 02 ?  how is 03 compared to Nat 05 (non XS) ?

01 or 02?  I'm talking about the NAT05 which is made from 2001-2009 and replaced by the 05XS! 

My Nat 05 SN:1701XX, which is year 2,000.  Is that Sanyo or Philips or what ? 

How is year 2,000 different from  2001 in terms of sonic characteristics ?

That should be a Philips head.  Really good.  I was told by one of Naim's engineers that the Philips could be made even better by refining the power supply arrangements and allowing an off board PSU (he said he had tried this and it sounded really good), but of course an off board PSU upgrade option didn't arrive until the NAT05xs, by which time the Philips head was long gone and instead the ALPS head.  I guess at the time with the arrival of DAB and satellite radio the future of FM was very much in doubt and the assumption was that digital radio take-up would be far quicker and more widespread than it actually was, hence demand for a tuner even better than the 05 would be too limited.  Oh for a crystal ball....

PTCM,   according to Naim (Product History) it says NAT-05 started production in 2001  (which is SN 170623 - 180714)  however if your SN is correct then it seems it did start in 2000.   This means its a Philips tuner head (there was no Sanyo)  If you read my previous post on tuner heads & how the preset LED behaves this will confirm if it is Phillips (or ALPS)      

I don't think too may people are able to say what, if any, sonic differences existed between the Phillips & ALPS heads.  The change to 05XS did make sonic changes,  I am not convinced the 05XS is better,  its a small change & I prefer to say its just different,  but I actually prefered 05 as I feel its a bit more natural.

Being a radio man myself including holding a current full CEPT licence, can I ask what is meant by a FM 'head'. It's not a term I recognize. What functions are contained within this 'head' and does it include the ever so critical stereo modulator,  discriminator and IF stages. And if so what is left for the Naim specific none 'head' end other than an audio buffer stage, control logic and the PSU or is that it and essentially the tuner is the 'head' end?

thanks

Simon

Simon, in this case "tuner head" will sometimes includes not just front end - the little metal box encased tuning stages (can you tell I'm not a tech?) but also a good deal of circuitry right up to the output stage.  I can't recall the exact extent at which Philips or ALPS begins (I think Naim used more of the Philips circuitry, whereas there's more Naim in the ALPS version) and then NAIM takes over, again you would need a Naim R&D tech to give the exact details here - certainly with regard to what is pure Naim you're looking at power supplies, analogue output section etc..

Cheers Richard, I have found an image of the NAT05 innards and it could be the stereo demux is also a Naim circuit built around some dedicated third party device too..but yes you can se that a significant proportion of the quality of the radio would be derived from the non Naim 'tuner head' .. as you say the screened box. I can imagine very careful procurement would be required by Naim ..

and looking at the innards of a NAT03 there appear severeal Naim tune circuits outside the 'tuner' head, so perhaps they used the ALPS module you referred to

Simon

Its  a commercial (OEM) bought in front end.   The metal box in the pic is the ALPS unit.   (the Phillips had a mother board)    The 03 unit was mounted on the main PCB

Thanks Mike, however it doesn't make it clear the functions. As Richard suggests, the module is not just a front end in all designs. The image on the web of the NAT05 suggests the module does far more than the RF module in the NAT03 where there are possibly three Naim specific IF stages.. so perhaps more Naim bespoke R&D in the 03 than the 05..