Tuner Nat 05 versus Nat 05 XS

I am now reading that even the earlier NAT05 was built around an OEM "head" while it is often argued that the quality of the 01 and 02 may have been with Naim engineering them throughout. Why would be the reason then for Naim to issue somewhat of a lesser product with the XS? Why not having stayed with the NAT05 and the Alps head?

Chag -

Hi Simon,  I first became familiar with these front end units years ago when I was working in the marine industry.  Although not directly involved, (I was generators & distribution) I worked with the radio people to ID & fix the sources of interference from my side,  & I remember a lot of head scratching & wishing for the old valve units.    As I see it these are the forerunners of the DAB/FM SDR modules that Naim & practically every other tuner have today 

Mike, SDR can be good, I use it for my main transceivers and spectrum analyzers, but more for selectivity and low intermodulation distortion rather than for sounding good, but it does have its issues, not least because of the DACs and the frequencies sometimes involved .. But great developments coming onto the market every few months with SDR at the moment.

I think I'd prefer analogue IF and a strong aerial signal which does seem to align to the best sounding radios I have heard to date... But when it comes to selectivity and RF intermodulation distortion SDR is very hard if not impossible to beat.  So the NAT05 /SX use SDR discrimination? That's surprising, given the 05 was developed when SDR was relatively quite crude.. but it does perhaps explain why the NAT03 has possibly visible IF tuned circuits using an analogue RF tuner unit and they are either absent or not visible on the 05.

Yes it appears the 05 started with a Philips tuner module, and then perhaps through supply issues was replaced with an ALPS tuner module. I believe the 05SX still uses the ALPS module.

With apologies chaps for the Sanyo misnomer. I was clearly confused!!

The Strat (Fender) posted:

Arun - strange.  I've heard PBs 01 so recognise how good it is but what I don't get is how.  After all I know Radio 3 use Denon CDPs amongst other stuff.  

I briefly heard PB's 01 and he has the XPS-T which is another step up that I would like to take - unfortunately, those were limited production. I don't know how those two small showeboxes sound so good either but for me and a few of my friends, nothing beats it.

I'll be looking at some upgrade boards for it soon. But adding the Chord Chorus Reference IC was a stunning upgrade...I want more.

Arun

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

...........  So the NAT05 /SX use SDR discrimination? That's surprising, given the 05 was developed when SDR was relatively quite crude..

I don't think so Simon,  the NAT-05 (after the Phillips unit) & up to today with the XS has the ALPS head tuner.  The current streamers use a SDR type of module but I'm not sure details, & wouldn't be surprised if there are different types/make/models as I heard them on some streamers sound a bit dull & lifeless whereas the 272 I heard was a lot better.

Please can someone tell me I don't need to sweat it about the newer NATs, and that the 03 (ie. the model I own) is OK if it has an outside aerial pointing in the right direction.

C.

Simon is yer man,  he's got both.   

Thanks, that's what I thought too but he only lists the 05.

C.

He had both & swapped between them.  The 03 was his prefered choice at one time but I believe he might have recently settled on the 05.  Whatever he's the one with the best experience of running both back to back on the same system.

PTCM posted:

Interesting - thanks for the 01 recommendation.  I never thought such an old model would beat the lastest Nat 05 XS with PS on.

Found the followings from the previous discussion, which is quite a differenct opinion. 

So now group A  = 01>02 > 05 and  Group B = 05XS > 05 from two different group of users.

Looks like my Nat 05 is the worst product in the hierarchy - lol.

 

"

To answer the original question, I've had all four products mentioned (Flatcaps 2 (and 2x) and XS, NAT05 (both matt and shiny!!) and NAT05XS.

 

My feelings are: 

a) the NAT05XS is far superior to the NAT05 and

b) I didn't gain much by connecting the FlatcapXS but

c) quality interconnects made a big difference.

"

My opinion exactly. The XS is the best - and much more reliable than the 02! - and the FCXS didn't add anything I could hear. Only problem I've had is the display which has that annoying flaw after a few years where the film looks like it has fluid under it. I asked my dealer and Naim quoted £200 to fix it!!!!!! 

!!!!

Guys - i do have both - but the 05 is plugged in currently-  I however prefer the sound of the 03 overall - its smoother and more natural sounding if perhaps not quite as detailed to these ears - however the remote control on the 05 makes it my goto tuner.

S

Thanks Simon, I can rest easy now. (And Look forward to Home Front at midday).

C.

The Strat (Fender) posted:

With apologies chaps for the Sanyo misnomer. I was clearly confused!!

I remember reading a review of the NAT05 years ago and recall it mentioned use of a Sanyo based circuit. I think the review was in HiFi choice. 

Thanks for everyone's input, now I am tempted to try nait 03 or 02. 

03: US$360 vs. 02:US$880

Which one should I get? Is the 2x price tag justifiable for 02?

Simon, you tried/owned 02 also? Your comment is highly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

John Bailey posted:

The Strat (Fender) posted:

With apologies chaps for the Sanyo misnomer. I was clearly confused!!

I remember reading a review of the NAT05 years ago and recall it mentioned use of a Sanyo based circuit. I think the review was in HiFi choice. 

I think that was it - thank you for restoring my sanity John. 

The Strat (Fender) posted:

John Bailey posted:

The Strat (Fender) posted:

With apologies chaps for the Sanyo misnomer. I was clearly confused!!

I remember reading a review of the NAT05 years ago and recall it mentioned use of a Sanyo based circuit. I think the review was in HiFi choice. 

I think that was it - thank you for restoring my sanity John. 

Or you could both be mad and suffering the same hallucination! 

PTCM posted:

Thanks for everyone's input, now I am tempted to try nait 03 or 02. 

03: US$360 vs. 02:US$880

Which one should I get? Is the 2x price tag justifiable for 02?

 

I presume that's just a typo - or have you inadvertently been looking at integrated amps for sale?

ChrisSU posted:

PTCM posted:

Thanks for everyone's input, now I am tempted to try nait 03 or 02. 

03: US$360 vs. 02:US$880

Which one should I get? Is the 2x price tag justifiable for 02?

 

I presume that's just a typo - or have you inadvertently been looking at integrated amps for sale?

you are correct.  I was asking about Nat 03 vs. 02 Tuner.

Has anyone tried all 02, 03, and 05 ?  how much is 02 better than 03 or just minor sonic characteristics ?

I want to get 01 but it's not available in this part of the world.

I've heard 02 (briefly) and 03 but not in the same system. The 02 definitely had more of that live-in-the-studio realism.

Chris

Christopher_M posted:

I've heard 02 (briefly) and 03 but not in the same system. The 02 definitely had more of that live-in-the-studio realism.

Chris

Thanks Chris,

relative to 01, is 02 way behind or just a little bit?

These tuner threads often contain a reccommendation for a certain 17 element aerial when contemplating a NAT01, is this just for signal strength or is the directionality/rejection important. If strength is everyting can you put a number on it?

PTCM posted:

Christopher_M posted:

I've heard 02 (briefly) and 03 but not in the same system. The 02 definitely had more of that live-in-the-studio realism.

Chris

Thanks Chris,

relative to 01, is 02 way behind or just a little bit?

NAT01? Never had the pleasure. But those forumites who have them tend to say things like, 'it's their best source bar none'.

C.

All I want to know is when are they going to add a DAB module into the NAT05XS and make it a truly versatile radio ? 

I'd buy one tomorrow.

PTCM posted:

Thanks for everyone's input, now I am tempted to try nait 03 or 02. 

03: US$360 vs. 02:US$880

Which one should I get? Is the 2x price tag justifiable for 02?

Simon, you tried/owned 02 also? Your comment is highly appreciated.

 

Thanks in advance.

When I had my 01 initially installed, the dealer also brought along a Magnum FT101 tuner (because it had a signal strength meter to help align the G17 antenna), as well as a NAT03-which he was taking along to a friends afterwards for a home demo. 

There was no contest...the 01 sounded like rich warm detailed live feed-at least as good as the CDS1 I had at the time, while the 03 was a pale shadow. Compressed, lacking in sparkle and quite flat. Announcers voices which ARE live feeds are a very good way to check the fidelity of a tuner. 

The Magnum was even worse. Slow in pace like an out of tune LP12. 

The 02 is much closer to the 01 than the 03 is to the 02. So yes....the 02 is easily worth the extra over the 03. 

Moderated Post:  Ron, please be mindful of forum rules - particularly with regard to discussion of unauthorised modifications to Naim kit.  Thanks.