New 282 Settling In, ND5xs On Order, What Should Be Next?

It was UnitiServe... when it works, that is... 

The Strat (Fender) posted:

250 DR - it's the greatest gift ever bestowed on humanity 

It is at least that good.

G

The Strat (Fender) posted:

250 DR - it's the greatest gift ever bestowed on humanity 

Gift? Where do I go to get it?

Am I on the wrong thread, the wrong Forum? Nobody has mentioned 300 DR, not even NDS, yet.. 

Chag -

Shhhh.... That's the new streamlined approach....))

1. Do nothing and chill

2. Source first - upgrade the stageline

3. Rationalise your digital source which seems a little messy and below the level of your system

3. Buy the 250DR along with whichever option you choose to upgrade your source

Have fun

varyat posted:

The Stageline is strangling your deck....

That said, the SC would lift all boats.

ATB,

Mark

I have to disagree about the Stageline: I find it open and involving and offering great clarity and transparency as well as oodles (that's the technical term) of good old Naim PRAT.  Certainly there are better, including the Superline at 6X the price; there's ALWAYS something better.  But before it I had an Auditorium 23 Step Up Transformer which is glowingly reviewed and goes for 40% more yet the Stageline beats it like the proverbial red-headed stepchild.  So "strangling?"  Not so much, in my opinion, but thank you for yours.

(I must be missing something and this is likely a foot in mouth post, but...)

I don't quite understand why you don't just use the UnitiServe direct into the nDac? Does the ND5xs bring that much to the table to add another box as a slightly redundant functionality solution? I would have thought the best sound quality would have been US --> nDac --> 555PS (DR or not)? 

Please understand I'm not poking here. I have a CD5XS --> nDac and while I do not have a PS on the nDac, this would be the route I would go to upgrade my source end. 

I would also make some Power Lines my next upgrade. They're a very cost effective one at that. Put the first on the HC. Second on the nDac. Third on the 200. 

Tallan,

Just took a look at your system details...WOW, you have a massive amount of gear! Seems like you could swap out your 200 for your 250DR and see how that improves things. Also, I note your PL on the 200, so you've got that covered.

I like the 555PS on your nDac as your next digital source upgrade. 

Aric

Aric posted:

(I must be missing something and this is likely a foot in mouth post, but...)

I don't quite understand why you don't just use the UnitiServe direct into the nDac? Does the ND5xs bring that much to the table to add another box as a slightly redundant functionality solution? I would have thought the best sound quality would have been US --> nDac --> 555PS (DR or not)? 

Please understand I'm not poking here. I have a CD5XS --> nDac and while I do not have a PS on the nDac, this would be the route I would go to upgrade my source end. 

I would also make some Power Lines my next upgrade. They're a very cost effective one at that. Put the first on the HC. Second on the nDac. Third on the 200. 

Yes, it IS a bit redundant.  However I have been reliably advised on the Streaming Forum by more than one member that the US will sound significantly better played through Ethernet to a streamer and then to the nDAC rather than directly via digital cable (in my case Naim's BNC).  Plus I'd like a streamer which supports Tidal but can also be controlled by the Naim apps and remotes just as a matter of convenience.  So my current Tidal-enabled streamer, an Auralic Aries Mini, will be re-purposed and replaced by the ND5xs.

Long range I would love to have a 555PS for the nDAC,; it's on my wishlist.

Tallan posted:

I have to disagree about the Stageline: I find it open and involving and offering great clarity and transparency as well as oodles (that's the technical term) of good old Naim PRAT.  Certainly there are better, including the Superline at 6X the price; there's ALWAYS something better.  But before it I had an Auditorium 23 Step Up Transformer which is glowingly reviewed and goes for 40% more yet the Stageline beats it like the proverbial red-headed stepchild.  So "strangling?"  Not so much, in my opinion, but thank you for yours.

ooh ooh -- tell me more! i'm using a Stageline S/Hicap with my Zu/Denon 103, and am strongly considering an Auditorium 23 SUT into a Stageline N. (i think we have the same dealer.) what about the SUT didn't do it for you, compared to the Stageline?

as to your original question, i'd second the notion of going with a microRendu instead of the ND5. your dealer can hook you up with a Chord DAC to try, as well. 

joe9407 posted:

Tallan posted:

I have to disagree about the Stageline: I find it open and involving and offering great clarity and transparency as well as oodles (that's the technical term) of good old Naim PRAT.  Certainly there are better, including the Superline at 6X the price; there's ALWAYS something better.  But before it I had an Auditorium 23 Step Up Transformer which is glowingly reviewed and goes for 40% more yet the Stageline beats it like the proverbial red-headed stepchild.  So "strangling?"  Not so much, in my opinion, but thank you for yours.

ooh ooh -- tell me more! i'm using a Stageline S/Hicap with my Zu/Denon 103, and am strongly considering an Auditorium 23 SUT into a Stageline N. (i think we have the same dealer.) what about the SUT didn't do it for you, compared to the Stageline?

I can answer this with one word: muddy.  Compared to the Stageline it sounded tepid and slow, lacking transparency, in my opinion.  But try it out & let your ears be the guide.  Just FYI it started out feeding a Shindo Monbrisson which had built in phono stages for both MM and MC carts, and it sounded well there, but going into Naim not so much.  Steve will happily tell you I'm nuts, but then he's an absolute tube-head!

Tallan posted:

Aric posted:

(I must be missing something and this is likely a foot in mouth post, but...)

I don't quite understand why you don't just use the UnitiServe direct into the nDac? Does the ND5xs bring that much to the table to add another box as a slightly redundant functionality solution? I would have thought the best sound quality would have been US --> nDac --> 555PS (DR or not)? 

Please understand I'm not poking here. I have a CD5XS --> nDac and while I do not have a PS on the nDac, this would be the route I would go to upgrade my source end. 

I would also make some Power Lines my next upgrade. They're a very cost effective one at that. Put the first on the HC. Second on the nDac. Third on the 200. 

Yes, it IS a bit redundant.  However I have been reliably advised on the Streaming Forum by more than one member that the US will sound significantly better played through Ethernet to a streamer and then to the nDAC rather than directly via digital cable (in my case Naim's BNC).  Plus I'd like a streamer which supports Tidal but can also be controlled by the Naim apps and remotes just as a matter of convenience.  So my current Tidal-enabled streamer, an Auralic Aries Mini, will be re-purposed and replaced by the ND5xs.

Long range I would love to have a 555PS for the nDAC,; it's on my wishlist.

Okay, I better understand now what your preferences are.

However, and you're probably not going to like this suggestion, I would sell the Living Room (Stageline + Digital Source + Amps [keep analog front end, PowerLine and HCDR]), Bedroom (everything w/ exception of 250DR), and Study systems and condense to the following:

NDS + 252 + 250DR (all on Fraim if you don't already have it). Used SuperLine (they pop up pretty consistently on A'gon). PowerLines on everything. SL later on.

Qb for the Bedroom and Study. 

joe9407 posted:

as to your original question, i'd second the notion of going with a microRendu instead of the ND5. your dealer can hook you up with a Chord DAC to try, as well. 

Please let me say, with all humility, good humor, and respect, that I have NO interest in such a solution, none at all.

I experience great synergy with Naim gear, more so than with any other brand in my 40+ years in this hobby.  The closer I get to all Naim all of the time the better my system sounds, the more conveniently it operates, and the more pleased I am.  And the company stands behind what it sells: Naim replaced my Uniti 2 with brand new units three times when the CD player failed, and repaired it at no charge the fourth time as the new "b" models had come out and an apples to apples swap was no longer possible.  This despite the unit being out of warranty for 2 years.

So no Mac Minis, microRendu, Raspberry Pie, Chord, Melco, etc. etc. for me: I have neither the time nor the interest to pursue such pastiche solutions.  If that makes me a "fanboi" I'll wear the title proudly as it's based on decades of experience.  Finally I hope this reads as "emphatic" and not prickly or snotty.

so ND5 it is!

"you do you", Tallan. no worries!

(though i will take the liberty of hoisting you on your own petard and add that clearly, you need to swap the Feickert for a Naimed LP12.)

Good for you!

The only observation I'd make is that you do have a lot of stuff, and that if you had less you could have a really fantastic system. Do you really need a £20,000 system in the bedroom? You have CD players that are not up to the standard of the amplifiers, and which you may not need at all. With a bit of reorganising you could have an NDS and a 552/500 in the living room, which would work beautifully with the Davone speakers. At the moment it looks like you are collecting as many boxes as possible, rather than going for the best sound you can afford. There is nothing wrong with that, if that's what floats your boat, but it's not something I can understand, so please don't take this as a criticism, it's merely an observation. 

Tallan posted:

joe9407 posted:

as to your original question, i'd second the notion of going with a microRendu instead of the ND5. your dealer can hook you up with a Chord DAC to try, as well. 

Please let me say, with all humility, good humor, and respect, that I have NO interest in such a solution, none at all.

I experience great synergy with Naim gear, more so than with any other brand in my 40+ years in this hobby.  The closer I get to all Naim all of the time the better my system sounds, the more conveniently it operates, and the more pleased I am.  And the company stands behind what it sells: Naim replaced my Uniti 2 with brand new units three times when the CD player failed, and repaired it at no charge the fourth time as the new "b" models had come out and an apples to apples swap was no longer possible.  This despite the unit being out of warranty for 2 years.

So no Mac Minis, microRendu, Raspberry Pie, Chord, Melco, etc. etc. for me: I have neither the time nor the interest to pursue such pastiche solutions.  If that makes me a "fanboi" I'll wear the title proudly as it's based on decades of experience.  Finally I hope this reads as "emphatic" and not prickly or snotty.

Fair enough - I,ve no axe to grind - though some people with relevant experience may point out that the " Naim sound" is not exclusive to Naim. But I do think your source is dubious - I don't know thos espeakers, but it appears they may be capable of great things, so they need a renderer and a DAC that will give them something to play with, and your current seemingly bitty approach might enable better even if exclusively Naim.

Well, the idea of a better phono stage has been declined, as has a non-Naim change. 

This being the case, the NDS/XPS would seem like a sensible way forward, given your constraints.  Happy auditioning, whichever route you elect to take!

Hungryhalibut posted:

Good for you!

The only observation I'd make is that you do have a lot of stuff, and that if you had less you could have a really fantastic system. Do you really need a £20,000 system in the bedroom? You have CD players that are not up to the standard of the amplifiers, and which you may not need at all. With a bit of reorganising you could have an NDS and a 552/500 in the living room, which would work beautifully with the Davone speakers. At the moment it looks like you are collecting as many boxes as possible, rather than going for the best sound you can afford. There is nothing wrong with that, if that's what floats your boat, but it's not something I can understand, so please don't take this as a criticism, it's merely an observation. 

No problem, HH.  In fact I do want if not need a rather excellent system in the bedroom: I usually listen to music for an hour or so in bed while reading before going to sleep, and two or more hours in the morning while I read the news via Flipboard on my tablet.  Retirement obviously suits me!  Also I like to play iRadio softly all night.  The system started as a Denon compact with the little Wharfdale speakers, graduated to Uniti 2 w/ KEF LS50s, then went post-grad with Nait XS 2, Cambridge Audio streamer & CD5si.  I tend not to sell gear but wait to trade it or give it away to family & close friends, which is why I have so much stuff stacked up...

My living room system is about half "whistle while I work" background music and half sit on the couch critical listening, so it is in line for upgrading over time.  I'm not sure I'll ever go 552/500 level but you never know.

Foot tapper posted:

Well, the idea of a better phono stage has been declined, as has a non-Naim change. 

This being the case, the NDS/XPS would seem like a sensible way forward, given your constraints.  Happy auditioning, whichever route you elect to take!

Not declined, just maybe deferred.  First thing I'd like to try is powering the Stageline with a HiCap; that could happen within a week or two, then eventually moving up to a Superline, but I'm in no real hurry.  As for NDS/555PS it's another lofty goal for the future.

Sell the NAP200 and buy a second-hand NAP300 (non-DR) - there are tons around at the moment.  Then if you feel the need later, go for the DR upgrade.

Tallan posted:

Foot tapper posted:

Well, the idea of a better phono stage has been declined, as has a non-Naim change. 

This being the case, the NDS/XPS would seem like a sensible way forward, given your constraints.  Happy auditioning, whichever route you elect to take!

Not declined, just maybe deferred.  First thing I'd like to try is powering the Stageline with a HiCap; that could happen within a week or two, then eventually moving up to a Superline, but I'm in no real hurry.  As for NDS/555PS it's another lofty goal for the future.

NDS + 555PS DR is very good indeed. But note that NDX + nDAC + 555PS (non DR) is also stunning.

As you already own nDAC, perhaps that NDX is not a bad idea

Thanks, everyone, for your responses.  It seems the most recommended option is to upgrade from NAP 200 to 250DR; coming in a distant second I believe is adding a SuperCap to the 282.  Everything else has been a one-off or an outlier.

This tallies well with my own inclination as changes to the power (or pre) amp are going to be heard no matter the source, maximizing the value and effect.

I well remember the improvements upgrading the 200 to 250DR made in my other system, and even tho the Davone Grandes are efficient speakers and not difficult to control the benefits of a deeper and more present low end, more precise soundstage, better imaging with increased clarity, dynamics, and control will make the wonderful SQ even better.

PS:  Whoever recommended Sierra Hull's WEIGHTED MIND in another thread somewhere: thanks!

another +1 for the do nothing and chill... these are all really enjoyable pieces of hifi equipment. Once you have got used to your new system and are liking it - perhaps listen to a few other people's set up - is there something there you would like more of? If so then that should drive your next upgrade decision - all in my humble opinion of course

Simon