so how do you demo?

My dealer agreed to home-demo complete turntables, with various arms and catridges. At some stage I had a new turntable every two weeks from him at home. That's what I call a service Ended up with a trusted LP12

Sorry HH, it was Harry who posted that quote; my aging brain made HungryHalibut = Hungry Harry!

+1 for the dealer - mine came to pick up my LP12 at 10am and delivered it back to me with new Krystal cartridge and some suspension tightening at 4pm the same day = 4x18 miles = 76 miles.

He is also very good at talking me out of spending money, almost insisting that I enjoy what I have first for some months before looking at anything else; which is a rarity these days but just adds to the trust. No BS just "I'll think you like this" and then leave me with the kit to decide myself; or "well if you insist but I think you are wasting your money" and then leave the kit. I cannot recall him being wrong either!

Allan

Borrow at home for a while when I can.

G

Just because Nigel and I have never been seen in the same room together (nor are ever likely to be) I can confirm for the record that we are not one and the same person.

I mean. Give him a break!

I have a few rules I try to follow.  There are requirements of me and of them.  Mostly it boils down to treating each other with respect.   

First, I try not to waste their time. 

heir time is valuable, they have a business to run. If I don't intend to buy in the short term I try to let them know; sometimes you think you can and then you can't and well... that's life.  If I'm planning on a longer term upgrade strategy, then I try to book auditioning for times when they are less busy. 

Bring your own music and build a selection of familiar demo material.

Incorporating tracks you are extremely familiar with is really important for piecing differences in presentation across multiple systems and settings. Try to incorporate tracks from all the genres of music you listen to. Do not just bring the best recorded/mastered music you own.  Bring music you actually listen to.  

When building a set of demo material, consider what you expect of your system.

If its that there be incredible sound staging and detail, then bring very well recorded material that gives the system a chance to portray this.  If it is that the system reproduce a violin perfectly, then bring a piece you're familiar with or that you've played yourself.  If it is that the system get you up out of your seat, then bring some music that moves you.  

 Don't audition when tired.

A/Bing can be a bit of a process and exhausting.  Try not to audition when you're tired.

Don't build too long of a demo set -- especially for initial in dealer audition.

When you're trying to AB multiple gear you need to be able to work your way through your full set.  If you feel rushed, or are getting pressured, it makes the process more frustrating. 

Don't feel pressured to make a decision, but don't waste their time either.

Audition multiple times and take the plunge when you are ready, but don't needlessly endlessly demo.  Set a time frame for your decision, be prepared to revise it, but think about what/why you should revise at that point.  

If you don't have a relationship with a dealer, be ready to put down a deposit or pre-authorize a credit card to facilitate a home audition.

I ran into this in a city I used to live in when I was auditioning CD players and i thought it was fair.  They didn't know me, so why should they let me audition a CD player at home over the weekend when they didn't?  I was prepared for this after I moved from one city to a city in another province. I was very upfront that I fully understood that might be required and as I recall - they did not require one. 

However, there are also a few things I also expect of my dealer

They need to allow for a home demo before final purchase.  

I've been quite fortunate in this regards, especially in my previous city, but that was a sort of rare arrangement.  Most people don't get multi-month loans of (expensive to me at the time) gear. 

The home demo should be of a reasonable length.

I don't expect my previous dealer arrangement to be preserved, but 48 hours is tough to make a final call.  I'd typically prefer 72 hours to a week. 

They should know more about their products than I do.

When they don't, they should be prepared to say "I don't know" instead of putting on a show and claiming they do. Sure dealers have multiple product lines, but it is their job to be the expert -- or at least the facilitator. 

They shouldn't slag your existing gear to try and up sell you on something else.

If they want to comment on voicing/matching that's cool, but if you've never heard my XYZ, then please just leave it be.  We all paid good money for gear that Expert ABC isn't familiar with, no need to dump on it just to try to make a sale.

I also like a dealer who is able/willing to work with me/facilitate upgrades.  

In today's financial climate that is not always a possibility, but is still a more desirable quality I look for. 

They shouldn't poke fun / make fun of the demo music

I am (was?) younger than a lot of people in this hobby for a long time.  I've had to deal with dealers who didn't like my demo material I brought. Yes I may listen to genres you're not used to have echo through the walls of your store, but I am a customer who is still a couple decades younger than the core of the customer base I see at dealer events.  This kind of treatment has absolutely baffled me in the past.  I have felt sheepish requesting to listen to 'Radiohead' at a NAIM event a few years ago my request was declined, so I left shortly after.  This year had a much better experience with the Statements where I requested Daft Punk & Michael Jackson (as a concession to people older than I)  and both were played (Thanks Manu!).  Please keep going in this direction.  

Harry posted:

I listen at dealer. Then listen at home if the dealer demo is promising. If it's something I believe will be promising in the first instance I will go straight to home demo - the dealer is pretty intuitive in this area and will recommend either coming into the shop or going straight to home dem.  In many (not all) cases I will then listen to the current system for a few days after the new candidate has gone back.

+1

Over the years my dealer has built up a very good relationship with me, so much so that we treat each other as friends.

I guess I generally have an idea what I'm looking for these days and that helps when it comes to organising a demo.

When demoing in the shop they organise a system as closely matching mine as is practical and I generally take a USB stick of tracks I know pretty well.

In the early days it was very much being guided by the dealer and demoing in the shop, but these days due to the trust we've built up he is quite happy to lend me kit on extended demo which is great.

In fact I recently asked for a demo in the shop on some PMC 25.23s. They didn't have any so had to order from PMC. I when they got them in they asked me if I wouldn't rather prefer to take them straight home to try in my own room. I now have them at home, probably for about a month, to give them a proper demo. I'm also doing them a favour running them in in case I decide in the end they aren't for me while they make space in the shop. I'm very lucky in that respect when it comes to trying out new kit.

Definitely building a rapport with your dealer is the way to go if you have one local and conveniently located to you.

And I normally try and stick to demoing max. 2 different items for comparison at the same time. Any more than that and my brain can't handle the comparisons / variations!

tonym posted:

These days, I might have a quick listen at my dealers, but I really don't learn much by doing this. I'm very fortunate here, because my dealers are happy to lend me kit for at least a week or so to evaluate in my own system. I wouldn't contemplate buying something without home demo.

Pretty much the same method for me. Also for home demo, I try and do at least a week, and do not A/B listen, but keep notes whether mental or written on some well known and familiar pieces of music.

Mind you Tony and I are fortunate enough to share the same dealership who are very accommodating.. and ever since I started with them in the early 90s they have always supported home based evaluations... which I guess is why I am still a customer all these years later... 

Another benefit of building a good established relationship with the a dealer is that they get to know your tastes and preferences, and so that can be quite useful in filtering out things evaluate.

Simon

Innocent Bystander posted:

wenger2015 posted:

Their are some very good on-line dealers. I deal with one that is very happy to send items for home demo, they just take your card details,  just in case you don't send the item back . 

Normally they contact you after a week or two and see if you like what your demoing , and because of the lower overheads they are happy to part exchange at a fair price, as yet all Naim items have stayed 

That's interesting: I'll have to hunt around more. I thought I was doing well, but they take the money immediately, not just the CC details, and so two items have had to be split over multiple cards to get round CC limits. And they limit to 14 days from receipt (though that seems reasonable), with onus on me to send back in time.

Wish I could make a recommendation but I don't think forum rules allow,  possibly the on- line dealers have to go the extra mile.. 

Linking to a retailer is against the rules, but not (as far as I can see) mentioning a dealer's name as recognition of good service.

I didn't think that Naim could be sold by online dealers anyway? 

There is a difference between my initial demo and demos later on. The initial demo was placed around a wide variety of music from Vier Letzte Lieder to Dream Theater.....and I did it at the dealer solely.

Nowadays I only look at the fact is the upgrade giving me a sufficient enough benefit. It can happen at the dealers but I also had kit at my home before. I always have the feeling that the home topic brings you closer to buying the stuff. The negative of the home demo is that you can't do such an easy A-B as normally the new stuff get's installed and you compare it with your sound memory of your current setup. So I tend to find the dealer demos more conclusive and like to do them also with a friend - to compare impressions.

The dealer I use, does have all the demo facilities if you wish to make use of them, but they will also come to you and set up, distance never seems to be a problem,  their happy to go the extra mile or in my case 150 miles 

I know a couple of UK dealers who will go several thousand.

I must admit I've never found dealer demos 100% convincing (even first-class dealers). This is mostly my fault: it's a different, unusual, environment, it's not the time of day when I normally listen to music (and there's no wine...), I have to concentrate hard on listening to the system itself rather than to the music, and eventually I have to try and decide whether speaker A is "better" than speaker B, which leaves me confused. Home demos are certainly better, but totally impractical in many places of the world.