Microrendu + Sonictransporter.

Hi Neil,

Please report back on your thoughts.

M

@Neil H.

I believe there is a review on audiostream.com of the mR/ST -  those reviews do not give much detail though. I am listening to an mR/DAC V1 setup right now and quite pleased. You just need to pay attention to the setup (a good LPS and your fav DAC-V1 USB cable). The hard adapter supplied with the mR did not please. If you can get a cable without the +5V connection, I would say worth a try.

@ Neil H.

I find the DAC-V1  to work well with the mR, so I expect you will be happy. The hard connector supplied did not please, so I used my short heavily shielded DIY (non standard) USB cable without the +5V connection. As for the mR  power supply, I used  a Teddy Pardo 7/3 LPS I had even though the iFi power I bought it with  is quite fun when used to power it producing a somewhat 'bouncy' sound!

After playing around with the setup a bit - I ended up with the 9V iFi plugged into an Ultra Link PS-600i filtered power bar and used it to supply the TP-Link ethernet switch, to which the mR was connected using CAT 5e. Separation of instruments and detail are very good with this setup, the sound perhaps a bit on the 'dry & tight' side with a certain 'urgency'  (compared to my desktop m/board direct into V1)  but just as musical nonetheless and inviting for extended fatigue free listening.

IMO, mR benefits from a 'clean' network - so power supplies and cables come into play. I hope you will report back on your findings.

B.

A Sonictransporter sounds like something from Doctor Who, and for that alone has got to be worth giving a go. Being a boring old git with a nas and streamer, all this gubbins was a mystery to me, but this thread has got me investigating what it all is. I don't want it, as I'm quite content with my setup, but if you have a USB DAC such as the V1 it makes complete sense and is very reasonably priced, unless you go for the 8Tb version, which seems quite expensive. It's interesting that the ifi makes a difference to the microRendu: I use one on my Ethernet switch and it's well worthwhile. They are good little things. 

Thanks for all the continuing advice. I will post up my views once I have it in place and apologise now for my lack of vocabulary when trying to do so.

Neil,

I found a slight improvement in high frequency detail using a home made data-only USB cable. Since then I have bought an Sbooster VBUS2, which does the same rather more professionally - for £20; perhaps a wee bit better.

M

Also,

Please don't as k me why but the network cable to the mR does effect the SQ, in my system:

5e - Slightly less focused, relaxed;
7 - More focus and more edge;
AQ Cinnamon - Best of 5e and 7.

It's a mystery.

M

Brilliant,

I thought the small TP-Link switches came with a 5V PSU; I was thinking of doing the same with my IFI.

M

Mr Underhill posted:

Brilliant,

I thought the small TP-Link switches came with a 5V PSU; I was thinking of doing the same with my IFI.

M

The one I am using is the 8 -port TL-SG1008D which has a 9V / .85A power adapter

Thx, I'll 'upgrade'!

M

^

The TP-Link website shows the p/n TL-SG1008D as their desktop unit, and the actual unit I have as  TL-SG108, but that is not what is printed on it!

Edit- the actual unit I have has the p/n TL-SG1008D but is not the desk top - it looks like the SG108 but has LEDs on the front and ports on the back!

Thx B,

The TL-SG108 shows 9v DC, the 1008D shows 5v DC.

I'll buy a TL-SG108.

M

I got lambasted for talking about the Rendu yesterday 

I emailed Sonore but they aren't talking layman's language.

I think I can connect the Sonore to the streamer ethernet port on my zenith and stream from the Zenith.

The bit I dont get is how to control the music. In an ideal world Id continue to use ipeng on the ipad controlling the zenith to send the music to the sonore (dnla or somethimg like that).

Depsite negative remarks, i am going to face off a regen, gustard, mr vs an ndx. Cable wise future shop have 60 day money back so wont cost me anything and the 'little boxes' are easily rEbayed. 

I'm not far off very happy so i think i am doing ok.

Not sure what sonictransporter is though.

The sonic transporter is basically equivalent to you Innuous Zenith. They are both network music servers/players. 

Ok, I don't know your zenith at all, but I did a quick look at it. It has 2 Ethernet ports which what may be complicating things. Also it states that it is a DNLA server so this is how you'll use it  with the microrendu. The big question is if the 2 ports talk to each other. If they pass data internally then you can use both ports as laid out on the back. This would mean that network data sent over the network would be able to get to the device plugged into the streamer port. If if the ports are not internally tied together you will need to have another network port for the MicroRendu to plug into. 

So the MicroRendu is both a push and pull device. Meaning you can have a device like a computer push data to the mR. The mR can be a target for a computer program like J.River. Also the mR can pull data from a server. 

I would think that the easiest setup for you would be having both the Zenith and mR both on their own Ethernet port (not tied together on the Zeniths Streamer Port). Then run the Lumin App on your tablet (or Linn Kazoo). In this mode the app would direct music from your server (zenith) to the mR (which would in turn be connected to your DAC via USB. 

I'm not saying that this is the only way for it to work, but it is one way that should work. 

Brubacca posted:

The sonic transporter is basically equivalent to you Innuous Zenith. They are both network music servers/players. 

Ok, I don't know your zenith at all, but I did a quick look at it. It has 2 Ethernet ports which what may be complicating things. Also it states that it is a DNLA server so this is how you'll use it  with the microrendu. The big question is if the 2 ports talk to each other. If they pass data internally then you can use both ports as laid out on the back. This would mean that network data sent over the network would be able to get to the device plugged into the streamer port. If if the ports are not internally tied together you will need to have another network port for the MicroRendu to plug into. 

So the MicroRendu is both a push and pull device. Meaning you can have a device like a computer push data to the mR. The mR can be a target for a computer program like J.River. Also the mR can pull data from a server. 

I would think that the easiest setup for you would be having both the Zenith and mR both on their own Ethernet port (not tied together on the Zeniths Streamer Port). Then run the Lumin App on your tablet (or Linn Kazoo). In this mode the app would direct music from your server (zenith) to the mR (which would in turn be connected to your DAC via USB. 

I'm not saying that this is the only way for it to work, but it is one way that should work. 

Thanks for taking the time to explain that. Most helpful. 

Push and pull makes sense. I'll have to look into the network ports and how they work.

It says they operate in isolation in order to stop any network nasties infiltrating your streamer.

Cheers

the sonic transporter is a headless computer, something ideal to run Roon ( a music player), but is just a computer without any audio dedicated tweaks. Also since you are not using Roon, you don't need it.

the zenith is designed ( they pretend to have designed it) as an audio optimized server , with isolated ethernet ports.
This isolation , if it is well designed, will mitigate EMI propagation from the rest of the network towards the microrendu.
the ports are communicating and there is no need for a switch.

you should connect the microrendu to the streamer port of the innuos

When you connect the network port on the innous to the rest of the network , the microrendu will also been seen by the rest of the
network and your control applications.

the microrendu can be run in DLNA Mode, with BubbleUPnp, Jriver, Lumin App and many others

For Ipeng , you can use its SqueezeLite mode on the microrendu

Stringerbell posted:

the sonic transporter is a headless computer, something ideal to run Roon ( a music player), but is just a computer without any audio dedicated tweaks. Also since you are not using Roon, you don't need it.

the zenith is designed ( they pretend to have designed it) as an audio optimized server , with isolated ethernet ports.
This isolation , if it is well designed, will mitigate EMI propagation from the rest of the network towards the microrendu.
the ports are communicating and there is no need for a switch.

you should connect the microrendu to the streamer port of the innuos

When you connect the network port on the innous to the rest of the network , the microrendu will also been seen by the rest of the
network and your control applications.

the microrendu can be run in DLNA Mode, with BubbleUPnp, Jriver, Lumin App and many others

For Ipeng , you can use its SqueezeLite mode on the microrendu

Thanks. Also very useful.

"the ports are communicating and there is no need for a switch."

Was this a statement? As in, you are telling me the ports "Are" communicating. Or just that they "might be".

Sounds like i shouldn't have any problems using the MR with my Innuos then.

Do you think it'll make the system sound better versus direct Innuos to Hugo DAC.

Cheers

Adam

I haven't seen the internals of the innuos, but the ports are communicating because you don't need a switch.

Regarding the improved SQ. I don't own a microrendu. I have just read the various good reports on it, presenting it as a very good or exceptional USB streamer.
A colleague of mine is running a microrendu on a dac v1. The microrendu is doing a very good job and compares quite favorably to the unitiqute , he was running alongside the V1. This chap has already orderered a hdplex power supply to further improve the microrendu performance

But as a Hugo owner ( and nd5xs owner) and also using the hugo with a cubox, I know that HD USB is not Hugo's best input. If i were you,
i would borrow a nd5xs/ndx from my dealer to have at least the bar set with the Hugo.

And if you are happy SQ-wise maybe call it a day with a S/H streamer.

You may still need to add something like a Gustard to max Hugo performance here with a microrendu ( on the USB). The microrendu may look cheaper at first , but with an expensive power supply and an usb/spdif interface.
It is less appealing.

Hi I.,

I thought I'd go and look at the manual for the Zenith, it appears to be 'under construction'.

In your position I would want to go back to the dealer and ensure that the mR will work with the Zenith before committing the money. For example, the mR gets its IP via DHCP, how will that work with the Zenith?

In terms of SQ, I don't think anyone can assist unless they own both the Zenith & mR, and even then all they can do is give you an opinion based on their system, room etc. Personally my money would be on the mR, it is designed from the ground up for one very specialist purpose.

I agree with S., by the time you include a PSU and a DDC the costs do start to grow, in my case the DDC is more expensive than the mR as I bought and kept the Mutec - but the music I am listening to is excellent, even with Quboz.

M

Stringerbell posted:

I haven't seen the internals of the innuos, but the ports are communicating because you don't need a switch.

Regarding the improved SQ. I don't own a microrendu. I have just read the various good reports on it, presenting it as a very good or exceptional USB streamer.
A colleague of mine is running a microrendu on a dac v1. The microrendu is doing a very good job and compares quite favorably to the unitiqute , he was running alongside the V1. This chap has already orderered a hdplex power supply to further improve the microrendu performance

But as a Hugo owner ( and nd5xs owner) and also using the hugo with a cubox, I know that HD USB is not Hugo's best input. If i were you,
i would borrow a nd5xs/ndx from my dealer to have at least the bar set with the Hugo.

And if you are happy SQ-wise maybe call it a day with a S/H streamer.

You may still need to add something like a Gustard to max Hugo performance here with a microrendu ( on the USB). The microrendu may look cheaper at first , but with an expensive power supply and an usb/spdif interface.
It is less appealing.

Thanks. I was seeing the Gustard as an alternative. Sounds like what you are saying is the mR alone wouldn't probably be enough. Still needing a Gustard to break the USB.

I'll do the maths.

Mr Underhill posted:

Hi I.,

I thought I'd go and look at the manual for the Zenith, it appears to be 'under construction'.

In your position I would want to go back to the dealer and ensure that the mR will work with the Zenith before committing the money. For example, the mR gets its IP via DHCP, how will that work with the Zenith?

In terms of SQ, I don't think anyone can assist unless they own both the Zenith & mR, and even then all they can do is give you an opinion based on their system, room etc. Personally my money would be on the mR, it is designed from the ground up for one very specialist purpose.

I agree with S., by the time you include a PSU and a DDC the costs do start to grow, in my case the DDC is more expensive than the mR as I bought and kept the Mutec - but the music I am listening to is excellent, even with Quboz.

M

Yes it's maybe time to add the costs up.

I still think I could sell all the fiddly bits easily so not much to lose.

The IP thing is a bit technical for me but these are the kind of things I need to know will work with the Zenith before investing. I wonder if you could assign an IP to the mR with a generic computer first. Wild guess!

The Innuos site says it's compatible with Uniti lines but doesn't mention NDX NDS... any ideas why they might not be compatible?

I agree, selling the 'bits' with some loss is not an issue, I have already sold my Gustard on without difficulty.

If you phone Innuos and tell them what you need to do they should be able to give you a definitive answer; I would be amazed if it doesn't support DHCP either by passing the packets or acting as a DHCP server itself.

The mR is a robust bit of kit and gives inexpensive upgrade routes.I am currently using the £50 IFI 9V PSU to excellent effect ....Sbooster hopefully arriving next week!

Hans Beekhuysen in his review on YouTube uses the mR with the Hugo, where he is very enthusiastic; no DDC in sight.

One advantage of using Naim can be the dealer support.

M

P.S. Look forward to your mR vs NDX comparison - fascinating!

Mr Underhill posted:

I agree, selling the 'bits' with some loss is not an issue, I have already sold my Gustard on without difficulty.

If you phone Innuos and tell them what you need to do they should be able to give you a definitive answer; I would be amazed if it doesn't support DHCP either by passing the packets or acting as a DHCP server itself.

The mR is a robust bit of kit and gives inexpensive upgrade routes.I am currently using the £50 IFI 9V PSU to excellent effect ....Sbooster hopefully arriving next week!

Hans Beekhuysen in his review on YouTube uses the mR with the Hugo, where he is very enthusiastic; no DDC in sight.

One advantage of using Naim can be the dealer support.

M

P.S. Look forward to your mR vs NDX comparison - fascinating!

The missus isn't impressed with all the experiments though. Oh well... needs must.

I picked up my Zenith and my Hugo last weekend, Saturday. The Zenith died on first CD rip, swallowed the Cd and wouldn't spit it back. So Innuos replaced it, no questions. Hope to get my Cd back.

The Hugo also died after 6 days. Stopped charging! 

So today I've got a new server, new usb cable, new hugo and it's driving me mad as everything had settled down and now it's all bright and lively (or maybe I am going mad). Thankfully I believe in burn in! 

More worrying though, i reverted back to the vanilla iMac this week with stock hugo cable while absent of Zenith, and the iMac/audirvarna seemed to produce a more musical sound with greater/deeper bass definition/impact which makes some of my favourite tracks much more involving and emotional. But it's not as refined I wouldn't say. Definite trade-off.

I read today that the Zenith has a mains conditioning element to it, now I am worried! Hopefully the flatness is due to new dac and cables. The last Hugo certainly freed itself after a fee days last time.

I had this set up weeks back with demo modela and it seemed to work well. Think I've listened to too much stuff lately. Annoying thing is that I was set to demo a Melco Na1 vs the Innuos but the distributor screwed up and forget to send it and I had to take a good offer on the Zenith. 

I've now got to give all this 2 weeks (100 hours) to settle and then take stock before playing with little boxes. 

I do have a Curious USB Hugo link coming though this week hopefully as I've heard this makes things a bit more natural and rounder. And a Jitterbug, just for a laugh. 

Then i'll sort out the other tests.

I will definitely report back once I've made progress. I appreciate your help.

Wow, what a bad run. Like you I hate digital edge, it ruins what I'm listening to and also has me listening FOR it. Trouble is that I find that some solutions not only remove that edge but also dynamics, micro and macro. The U12 was for me a bit like that. In isolation I thought it was very good, but the Audio Breeze showed it up, listening to timpanies via the AB was exciting, via the U12 good in a slightly more academic way.

Since buying the mR I have been trying to maximise the positive whilst removing that edge. I therefore went through the DDC comparison. Since then I have been playing with my system in terms of cables, inputs and supports. Two days ago I think I hit a sweet spot. Edge isn't banished, I have a few test tracks that I use ....but, it is reduced and the system's detail and dynamics are coming through strongly.

I am listening to more music, and more varied music, than ever before. Yes, if I play a good piece of vinyl that is something even more special, but my digital system is excellent - and I can now do a demo where Quboz is better than my local files/LPs, something that was never true via my Sonos; all depends on what I choose to play.

M

I've ordered a Gustard as a yard stick to see if I want to continue down that route. It doesn't need a PSU and is cheap. Step 1. Regen after that.

However, regardless of that, I came in from work and got annoyed with the tinny sound. So I turned the Zenith sideways, whipped out the usb, and shoved in a 15cm Nokia micro usb from years back. Suddenly, the sound 'came on'. Full, deep, warm. I just couldn't believe it. So then I got a Samsung charge cable. Same thing only clearer. So then I thought, sod it, I'll put the Hugo stock back in and burn it to shreds, but when I did it... the sound wasn't like it was before I took it out!? I am totally bemused. It was as if moving the Zenith changed something. 

Anyway such was the positive change I decided that I would remove the 'Cap of exotic nature' from my XS2. 

Amazingly the differences in taking the exotic cap away were much more subtle since adding the Zenith to the system.

Before the Zenith the XS2 was unlistenable with bare iMac, sssssss and tizzzz. Obviously this was caused by the noisy iMac usb! And the XS2 sounds fantastic without the cap. Infact I think I prefer it's airey, freshness and flow. 

I think my next purchase is the SN2! Or a DR power to plug the Hugo into. The extra clout and finess will do me just nicely.

Interested to see what the Gustard does now that I can see the benefits of the Zenith clearly.

Will update. 

Cheers

Adam