My streaming adventure has succeeded.

Hi Mike

Glad to read you have found a suitable solution.  Your post is of particular interest to me as I have a spare Chromecast Audio that I have previously tried with my Naim kit but wasn’t impressed with the sound quality. I was using the 3.5 mm cable for the connection as I did not realise that there was an option to use an optical cable (and thus utilise my NDX internal dac!).  What optical cable do you use?  I would be interested to know if higher quality cables would make a difference to the sound.

Qobuz is great and streams very well on my Linn DS. I hope that Naim catches up soon with Qobuz streaming too.

Always nice to find an option that works for you.  I tested Qobuz and TIdal back to back on my Mac/Audirvana set up and finally opted for Tidal.  Qobuz was much better than Spotify but nowhere near as good as local files and only really useful for testing new music, Tidal, on the other hand is just excellent and very close to local files

MikE, what NAS have you set up for your ND5XS? Or are you storing your music on a PC / Mac?

Dear Mike1951, I believe you have tried Tidal via your mobile in "premium" quality, via your streamer will be "HiFi" quality - much better and lossless (flac).

I've ripped my CD'S to a laptop running windows 7.

Ironically, most of them are also in my Qobuz "favourites" list.

I stream from my Qobuz account exclusively. Sound quality is fine.

Rest of the kit is: 

NAC202

NAP200

NAPSC

Hicap "style" power supply  

Proac D15 speakers

Isoblue support rack

The optic cable is Google Chromecast's own. You have to buy it seperately...

PC's & laptops with Win-7 are not great at playing music Mike,  computers are inherently noisy & unless you've really gone to town & optimised it specifically,  it will never be the best for SQ.   You really do need to think about a NAS as something designed for the purpose.  With a NAS & a properly wired network,  real hifi in top end 24bit high res is open to you.   But in meantime enjoy what you have,  but remember it's only the first stop on the line.

Fully agree - a dedicated NAS will make playing back music quite simple and enjoyable. Forum members tend to use QNAP or Synology.

If help is needed setting up one I'm available. My email in in my profile.

Just to add to Mike-B's comments:  The same applies to all general purpose computer systems.

Some people have had success with Mac minis but then they've found that you still have to use an external reclocker and/or isolator to get the sound quality.

NASs are much simpler and much less noisy, they are also designed for 24x7 operation, so you don't have to wake them up from hibernation befor listening and then return them to sleep when you've finished listening.

Different requirements and environments can lead to different solutions! 

Perhaps you missed the bit where I said I stream in from my Qobuz account exclusively.

Mike1951 posted:

Perhaps you missed the bit where I said I stream in from my Qobuz account exclusively.

Mike - I didn't

I just think it is doing your wonderful system a bit of disservice. It's like you buy a very good car (say a BMW) and never take it out of the 1st gear.

Of course - music is the most important thing here. But I still feel it is such a waste of resources...

I had not missed it either,  Qobuz is all very nice & for sure has a lot going for it,  but in the modern world of 24bit & DSD hi-res its all a bit mid-fi & your ND5 is capable of bringing you so much more.

To try it,  get (buy/borrow/steal) a download of a well known favourite album in 24bit & upload it to a USB stick & try that.   If it doesn't convince you, OK,  but at least you heard what its all about.

Well, the quality is palpably superior to my previous setup. Going down the route of buying downloads and transferring them to a usb for replay is, to my mind, just a more complicated way of buying CD's. If I wanted that, I'd have just upgraded the CDX. 

As it is, I've got superior audio plus all the benefits of convenience and a whole new world of investigating music I've never heard before.

At the moment at least, I'm disembarking from the upgrade train before it's diverted down the rabbit hole of chasing the "ultimate quality playback" instead of enjoying what already sounds like an improvement.

Mind you, it does have it's drawback. I was listening to a solo piece by Joe Pass on acoustic/nylon strings guitar and got really annoyed by the way the sound of his fretboard fingering was getting in the way of hearing the notes he was playing...  

Mike1951 posted:

Well, the quality is palpably superior to my previous setup. Going down the route of buying downloads and transferring them to a usb for replay is, to my mind, just a more complicated way of buying CD's. If I wanted that, I'd have just upgraded the CDX. 

As it is, I've got superior audio plus all the benefits of convenience and a whole new world of investigating music I've never heard before.

At the moment at least, I'm disembarking from the upgrade train before it's diverted down the rabbit hole of chasing the "ultimate quality playback" instead of enjoying what already sounds like an improvement.

 

Mind you, it does have it's drawback. I was listening to a solo piece by Joe Pass on acoustic/nylon strings guitar and got really annoyed by the way the sound of his fretboard fingering was getting in the way of hearing the notes he was playing...  

Mike

Just to clarify one possible missunderstanding: downloads (typically 96 kHZ / 24 bit) are generally stored on a Network Attached Storage (NAS) rather than a USB stick. CD rips can also be stored on the same NAS for ease of use.

There is also a significant quality improvement in high-resolution audio vs regular CDs / Titdal. If you go to HD Tracks website they offer free sample downloads. Do try them - even from a USB stick

Adam

Mike1951 posted:

I decided to take the plunge and wave goodbye to my CDX/XPS combo. Went out and bought a ND5XS and XP5XS.

Had a wonderful time investigating available radio stations and avoiding drowning in the available amount of choices. Noticed pretty quickly that anything under 320kbps wasn't worth listening to.

strange observation, I listen happyly to stations on 196 and 128.  I do not find 320 that much better, not on the servers at least.

 

In the meantime, discovered Qobuz. Recently bought out and massive website improvement. Downloaded the app for CD-quality playback. Expensive, but hey-ho. The price of what you want is the price you have to pay, I guess.

And then... HALLELLUIJAH! Chromecast Audio dongle. Plug into the back with an optic cable and helloooooo.... Quality returns to Mike's lounge.

Given that Qobuz is revived and (as far as I can tell) getting more popular, I expect that NAIM's radar will be keeping an eye on it for inclusion on the service?

Go on NAIM, you know you want to. I mean, you know we want you to. Eh?

Still alive, but plans to expand into the Nordic countries that was announced in 2015 has not happened. So  nice for people in the countries Qobuz supports but if they do not expand not worth using scarce development resources on at Naim.

Mike1951 posted:

 just a more complicated way of buying CD's.

 

........  err not so Mike.    I do it all from my armchair without getting off my maximus gluteus,  a few clicks & most of the time is doing nothing other than waiting while it downloads.  Select, Paypal, Download to PC, Check, Transfer to NAS, Play.

All of the music I've got on my "Favourites" list is stuff I'll be listening to again. And it keeps expanding. If I buy it all as a download, it would cost a bloody fortune.

We're not all lottery winners.

Anyways, you'll have to excuse me 'cause I'm just going to listen to some music on my fantastic-sounding music streaming system.

Laters.

I agree with the guys, NAS server I think is the best source for the streamers - improve the sound quality together with hi-res albums. But I also understand - this equipment needs some investment as well.

Cheers

..

Kacper posted:

Dear Mike1951, I believe you have tried Tidal via your mobile in "premium" quality, via your streamer will be "HiFi" quality - much better and lossless (flac).

Dammit. Tidal gets you a 30 day free trial in the HiRes option so of course I gave it a go and compared to the Qobuz it's another planet...

Also, you get 17 squids charge a month for 6 months upfront so it's impossible to resist. On Qobuz, as far as I can tell, their top option gives you HiRes downloads but still only lower level "CD quality" streaming. 

Now I've got to recreate my favourites list all over again...There goes the weekend.

Mike1951 posted:

..

Kacper posted:

Dear Mike1951, I believe you have tried Tidal via your mobile in "premium" quality, via your streamer will be "HiFi" quality - much better and lossless (flac).

Dammit. Tidal gets you a 30 day free trial in the HiRes option so of course I gave it a go and compared to the Qobuz it's another planet...

Also, you get 17 squids charge a month for 6 months upfront so it's impossible to resist. On Qobuz, as far as I can tell, their top option gives you HiRes downloads but still only lower level "CD quality" streaming. 

Now I've got to recreate my favourites list all over again...There goes the weekend.

So it seems you ARE interested in quality playback.

Mike you have been given some very good advice to get the best from you Naim streamer. Get yourself a NAS, they are pretty cheap, do a little more fiddling and you will be amazed at the leap up in sound quality from local streaming (from a NAS) compared to what you are hearing from Tidal. Think of the improvement you have just heard going from Qobuz to Tidal TIMES TWO. You will then be hearing what your ND5XS is capable of and finally getting (hearing) value for money. Many 24 bit downloads are not that expensive and you can transfer all your ripped CDs to your NAS for free.

Mike, glad to hear you are enjoying your streaming.. and yes using appropriate hardware with a very low noise transport clock via Optical into your streamer you can have Tidal and Qobuz rivalling local media playback... albeit local FLAC playback... as far as the streamer is concerned the media is the same... its the media framing timings than can drive the difference in SQ... hence why with SPDIF brst used a low noise transport clock. If you really want to continue using PC/Mac then I recommend a professional grade audio interface.. there are many to choose from these days, as the PC/Mac has become ubiquitous these days  for so much modern music creation... the SQ can be right up there

Dont hold your breath for Qobuz integration with Naim... the Tidal integration with the current Streamer architecture has been a real challenge for Naim and the integration is still not fully finished.

Thanks. What is this "audio interface" of which you speak?

I'm going to load a track or two from my laptop on to a usb later just to hear what's what...

In the meantime, I've signed up to Tidal and ticked the "HiFi" setting for streaming and the result is gob-smacking. So it seems NAIM know what they're about after all. Surprise!

I do need to make the few albums from my CD collection that Tidal can't find, available, though.

Happy days.

Hi, well I thoughtbetter steer to the hifi rather than professional world, but have a look at these to get some idea..

http://www.hi-fiworld.co.uk/in...1-xxx.html?showall=1

These interfaces can then pipe SPDIF into your Naim Streamer of Naim DAC from a PC or MAC USB interface.

So I just downloaded my "non-internet available" CD's on to a usb stick, pushed it into the ND5XS port and played "John McLaughlin Trio Live at the Royal Festival Hall".

Oh good grief. My eardrums just came.