Loudness Wars
Posted by: NJB on 23 September 2016
i know that this has been well covered before, but after discovering the loudness wars database I have been checking out the difference in back to back comparisons. It has been very revealing. I got suckered into buying many of my fav albums as remastered versions. Fair to say, nearly every remastered copy has been ditched because the originals from years ago are so much better. Once you realise that remastering is a gimmick for the iPod generation, in most cases, then it is hard to live with. I now check the database when buying old albums to see which version gives the best bang for my buck....
Interesting, I didn't realise that a re-mastered version was possibly a con...im in the suckered club as well... we live and learn as they say
It's a bit of both. Many clean up the pops and squeaks, and they hit you with real impact. So, most people get the wow factor. But then you realise there is just loud, the quiet bits have gone, and that is when your brain kicks in and starts wondering what has happened.
To be fair, there are some good remastered versions, but too many are lazy rehashes with all the knobs turned up to 11....
So theirs no way of
So theirs no way of telling the difference before purchasing?
wenger2015 posted:Interesting, I didn't realise that a re-mastered version was possibly a con...im in the suckered club as well... we live and learn as they say
Possibly a con is exactly that, possibly. Many remastered titles are far superior and some are superior in certain sonic measures but dynamically 'bricked', and some are worse. Sometimes the owners of the masters may not allow the original tapes to be used and we have disasters such as 10cc's late '90s reissues or the tapes are in poor nick. Some have been remastered a few times and usually the 2nd,3rd generation remasters are excellent (usually flat transfers or a range of mix options / definitions, see King Crimson, Gentle Giant, Roxy Music etc).
I have reissues of Klaus Schulze on CD (not remastered) by SPV on Revisited Rec. sourced direct from the original master. Luckily all his work was curated by Klaus D Muller (SPV were given access to the tapes) and to my ears these are better sq than anything that was ever put out before. Remastering was not required. Best to ask in a music forum if you are considering investing in a back-catalogue, Naim's music room is pretty reliable on Prog and Jazz artists.
hafler3o posted:wenger2015 posted:Interesting, I didn't realise that a re-mastered version was possibly a con...im in the suckered club as well... we live and learn as they say
Possibly a con is exactly that, possibly. Many remastered titles are far superior and some are superior in certain sonic measures but dynamically 'bricked', and some are worse. Sometimes the owners of the masters may not allow the original tapes to be used and we have disasters such as 10cc's late '90s reissues or the tapes are in poor nick. Some have been remastered a few times and usually the 2nd,3rd generation remasters are excellent (usually flat transfers or a range of mix options / definitions, see King Crimson, Gentle Giant, Roxy Music etc).
I have reissues of Klaus Schulze on CD (not remastered) by SPV on Revisited Rec. sourced direct from the original master. Luckily all his work was curated by Klaus D Muller (SPV were given access to the tapes) and to my ears these are better sq than anything that was ever put out before. Remastering was not required. Best to ask in a music forum if you are considering investing in a back-catalogue, Naim's music room is pretty reliable on Prog and Jazz artists.
It's a case of do your research before you buy..
wenger2015 posted:hafler3o posted:wenger2015 posted:
It's a case of do your research before you buy..
Yes, let the other guy make the mistake for you, there's no point getting in the same predicament. I do wonder about the accuracy of some loudness wars database info!
I had a thread running about well produced albums etc, and a few of the recommendations aligned with my music tastes. So, I got a couple of listed albums and they have been absolutely stunning. Make my HiFi sound fabulous. The best one I found this way is called 'Colour of Spring' by Talk Talk. It is very impressive.
There is an internet DR database. This is a good rule of thumb and easy way to spot the howlers but it's never entirely that simple. I use forums like Steve Hoffman and Computer Audiophile to get some reliable second hand assessments. There is some loudish stuff that sounds OK to me and unless it’s a brick walled disaster there will seldom be a consensus. I think Transformer, Berlin, the B52s catalogue and Zep’s catalogue all sound a bit “better” for the kick the latest 24bit versions contain. Although for me, the Zep is borderline. Generally, but not entirely speaking, most of my fist issue 80s and early 90s CD are the recordings I still go to – although I haven’t played them from a CD for years.
I managed to wean myself off the automatic reflex of going for the latest remaster without waiting for more widespread feedback until I got interested in HiRes stuff (I call HiRes anything above 16/44). I was initially lucky with my 24bit choices but over time, same as any other resolution or format, it’s the quality of the source material that makes the biggest difference. It is fashionable in some quarters to take a stick to HiRes because bits can’t improve a lousy recording, but the truth is that this argument, as well as being correct, has applied to every recording in every format ever issued. HiRes is no different, just more expensive.
It’s a lottery. I bought the Associates reissued catalogue on CD recently and have been grinning and laughing with delight since. More recently I bought the new, extensive, special edition, super-duper “New Gold Dream” for the 24/96 remaster and was crushed with disappointment. It’s awful. Why? Because it’s too loud. Then again, I more recently got the reissued Screaming Blue Messiahs box set, which is rough, raw and very very loud. And I love it. So who is qualified to say what is “right” and what is not
Steve Wilson is a safe bet. I haven’t heard a Steve Wilson reissue I didn’t like. Sometimes it’s the remix. Other times it’s the flat transfer of the original. But he’s never failed my ears. Anthony Phillips’ first two albums have come out remastered in 24bit this year and sound like I’m hearing them for the first time. Magical. His next two albums sound awful. I should have hung back.
And so the lottery rolls on. Stand Up and Tales from Topographic Oceans are next up for me. Not that I don’t own several versions already in various formats and resolutions. But with Mr Wilson at the controls I have high hopes.
On another track, it’s amazing the prices some collectors will pay for indifferently bland remasters, ranging right through to badly processed crap. Many of the limited editions will pay you back if you are prepared to wait.