ND5 XS vs NAC-N 272

Thanks, Huge. As one of the more impecunious members of the forum, I sometimes struggle to figure out what to wish I could afford, and posts like this help

More seriously, nice to see a detailed and properly informed comparison.

How would ND5/nDAC compare to 272 may be the next question. All considering that the 272 pre section is at 202-282 level.

The one box mid range unit, while an exceptional unit on its own merits is still facing fierce VFM competition in the catalog.  

Chag -  

I am not totally updated on prices, but  You need to at a pre in that setup for the nds5 ndac setup, witch makes the 2 systems very different in terms of cost. you could of course add a power supply to the 272 making the comparison more fair in terms of the price.

Claus    

comparison less avora

Or you could go S/H on ND5, nDAC and XPS..

Chag -

Chag... posted:

Or you could go S/H on ND5, nDAC and XPS..

Chag -

555PS on the nDAC is even better. Preferably an older, non-DR version. Can be picked up for approximately 1/2 the price of a new XPSDR now.

 

555PS on the nDAC is even better. Preferably an older, non-DR version. Can be picked up for approximately 1/2 the price of a new XPSDR now.

I agree. I just didn't dare pushing 555PS against 272. Found it too unfair, almost unethical.

Chag -

Thanks for the info, Huge.

Has anybody compared the 272 with the NDX?

My next upgrade is looking like the 272 and 250DR. I'd consider an NDX but I don't want to pay for an expensive preamp (282) that I'd hardly ever use (the vast majority of my listening is FLAC or radio). Also, the 272 seems to be more advanced than it's analogue peers with full management from a Smartphone and the 'digital' volume control.

It's fairly obvious that once you start talking about an nDAc and 555PS it will be a better DAC than a 272, though quite how it relates to Huge's comparison I'm not sure.

There are loads of options in Naim's range so that one can have lots of little boxes or fewer larger ones for the same money. With a 272 and 200 or 250 you can have a great system with two boxes and two plugs. Or you could have a ND5xs, nDac, Nait XS and flatcap with four plugs and various interconnects. Both systems can be upgraded with a power supply: a XPS or 555ps on the 272 or the nDac. It's as much a lifestyle choice as one of ultimate sound quality.

PeterJ posted:

Thanks for the info, Huge.

Has anybody compared the 272 with the NDX?

My next upgrade is looking like the 272 and 250DR. I'd consider an NDX but I don't want to pay for an expensive preamp (282) that I'd hardly ever use (the vast majority of my listening is FLAC or radio). Also, the 272 seems to be more advanced than it's analogue peers with full management from a Smartphone and the 'digital' volume control.

I've heard Trickydickie's NDX, 282, Hicap and 250DR with Kudos C20s and thought that my system was at least as good. Of course, it was with different speakers in different rooms, and an XPS on Richard's set up would raise the bar. Coming from an SU the 272/250 is another world. The NDX/282 may or may not be better, but that's not really the point in some ways. 

PeterJ posted:

Thanks for the info, Huge.

Has anybody compared the 272 with the NDX?

My next upgrade is looking like the 272 and 250DR. I'd consider an NDX but I don't want to pay for an expensive preamp (282) that I'd hardly ever use (the vast majority of my listening is FLAC or radio). Also, the 272 seems to be more advanced than it's analogue peers with full management from a Smartphone and the 'digital' volume control.

Peter - NDX would control 282's volume via a system integration.

However... go for N272 with a 250DR and eventually add an XPSDR and you will have a wonderful and  a very versatile system.

Meta Analysis:

There are plenty of peoples opinions of the 272 vs the NDX, with opinion generally slightly in favour of the NDX (given the cost difference in requiring a separate pre-amp, I would have expected a clearer opinion in favour of the NDX).

A few have compared the 272 to the NDX / 282 + HiCap, with opinion almost always favouring the NDX / 282 + HiCap (but then it should give substantially better SQ at 2.5 times the price!).

A very few have compared the 272 to the SU, and opinion has always been in favour of the 272 (again no surprise given cost).

I couldn't find much at all comparing the ND5 XS with the 272, and decided to post this as it's a reasonable upgrade path.

There are several posts concerning adding an external PSU to the 272, generally very strongly in favour (may be as this can improve the pre-amp performance as well as the streamer).

I've not seen a comparison of a NDX / 282 (NAPSC) with a 272 + XPSDR (both feeding a 200 or 200DR), although that would at least be a nearer price comparison (£8k vs £7k).

N.B.  If upgrading a Nait XS 2 with an external pre-amp (i.e. with a 272 feeding the power amp of the integrated via a SNAIC 4) you'll need an external PSU to power the input stage of the power-amp as that's powered from the pre-amp PSU and not from the power-amp PSU.

PeterJ posted:

 

Has anybody compared the 272 with the NDX?

 

Yes I have directly compared the NDX/XPS/282/HC/250 configuration vs NDX/XPS2/SN2 vs 272/XPS/250 and their presentation is different - considerably but the former is of course considerably more expensive than the latter 2.    If you like the 272/XPS/250 and feel that you would not wish to invest the extra £ in the former then I would suggest you don't bother with the demo but I would still recommend you listen to the NDX/XPS/SN2.   However, I would say that whether you choose NDX or 272 an XPS is very highly recommended.  Either way provided you match the right speakers it will all be good it's just options.

Regards,

Lindsay

Huge,

thanks for the comparison

which interconnects did you use between the nd5xs and 272 ?

my bet would have been on the nd5xs configuration, that is physically separating streamer/dac and preamp. It says a lot about the 272 that is very well engineered, if it slightly beats separates here ( probably better than 202/nd5xs) and even challenges more expensive setups. It is really a sweet spot in the range, as it works also well with a 250.

Stringerbell posted:

Huge,

thanks for the comparison

which interconnects did you use between the nd5xs and 272 ?

my bet would have been on the nd5xs configuration, that is physically separating streamer/dac and preamp. It says a lot about the 272 that is very well engineered, if it slightly beats separates here ( probably better than 202/nd5xs) and even challenges more expensive setups. It is really a sweet spot in the range, as it works also well with a 250.

 

Hi Stringerbell,

I used a Mogami W2534 pseudo balanced interconnect.  When I used this with the Nait XS 2 (with a cuddly toy PSU), the Mogami interconnect was way better than the standard Lavender interconnect in every way.

The streamer section of the 272 clearly beats the ND5 XS (not by a massive margin, but consistently none the less); however, the pre-amp section of the 272 is considerably better than the Nait XS 2 pre-amp, even with an external PSU on the Nait and the 272 running bare.

Add an external PSU to the 272 and the differences are even greater.

Thanks to HH, Adam, Huge & The Strat.

I will probably go for the 272/250 (after an audition) and add an XPS later. Keeping the box count down is good as I've gone from a 6 box system to a two box system (SU and the device that must not be named). I'm driving a pair of Dali Rubicon 6 speakers but would upgrade to Focal Sopra 2 after the electronics is sorted.

Sounds like a good plan Peter.

Adam,

In saying earlier to get a 555PS and preferably an earlier, non-DR one, was that driven by the price concern in this particular upgrade path, or did you find that a non-DR 555PS sounded better with the n-DAC/NDX? 

Neil

Neil Bennett posted:

Adam,

In saying earlier to get a 555PS and preferably an earlier, non-DR one, was that driven by the price concern in this particular upgrade path, or did you find that a non-DR 555PS sounded better with the n-DAC/NDX? 

Neil

It was more of a sound quality rather than outright price issue. 

I tried my 555DR and nDAC sounded too harsh with it. Non-DR sounds just right. 

NDS on the other hand sounds better with a 555DR. 

Super report and Meta-Analysis, Huge, thank you!

I'd expect that ND5XS-dig-out -> 272's digital input would be very, very similar to 272's own streamer: did you try this?

Thanks,

Stefan

I didn't try that as I only have cheap 75Ω S/PDif cables (one from a Laptop via a USB>S/PDif converter, the other from a Blue-Ray player), so it wouldn't be a fair comparison.

I've gone from UQ2/nDac/XPS2/282/HC2/250.2 to 272/XPS2/250.2. Haven't commented before because I was waiting for it all to settle down. 

Putting the use of a UQ2 as a streamer aside, I'm finding that in general the new system sounds better with digital but [i]perhaps[/i] slightly behind on the vinyl side. Not by much and to be honest it might just be a slightly different preeemtayion style. I certainly don't enjoy it any less than before and mostly think it's better.

Convenience wise it's very much better, especially volume control and multi room (with a SuperUniti In another room).

There you go, just to add that into the mix of possibilities!

Since the ND5 XS belongs to the XS series and the N-272 belongs to the Classic series one should indeed expect that the N-272 is a better streamer than the ND5.

What is surprising is that some find that as a preamp the N-272 is better than the (no PSU) 282.

If true this would make the N-272  a real bargain.

What is the XS series and in what way is it lower standard than classic - and where is this stated? When I bought an ND5XS 3 years ago there was nothing on Naim's website indicating differences between XS and other series other than that  the XS models were physically slimmer. (It was clear that the ND5 was below NDX and that was below NDS)

alainbil posted:

Since the ND5 XS belongs to the XS series and the N-272 belongs to the Classic series one should indeed expect that the N-272 is a better streamer than the ND5.

I wouldn't be so sure. The ND5 and the 272 are two different products with different functions. The only suggestion I would be ready to draw is that the 272 is likely to be more accomplished than the 172.

Chag -

alainbil posted:

Since the ND5 XS belongs to the XS series and the N-272 belongs to the Classic series one should indeed expect that the N-272 is a better streamer than the ND5.
...

However the difference between ND5 XS and the streamer in the NAC-N 272 is relatively small.
I believe the difference between the streamer in the NAC-N 272 and the NDX is also relatively small (and favours the NDX), but I haven't compared them directly and in the same system, as I have done with the ND5.

alainbil posted:

...
What is surprising is that some find that as a preamp the N-272 is better than the (no PSU) 282.
...

The difference between the pre-amp in the Nait XS 2 and the pre-amp in the NAC-N 272 is much greater.
I've not compared it to a NAC 282, but I'd expect it to better both the NAC 152XS and the NAC 202.

alainbil posted:

 

...

If true this would make the N-272  a real bargain.

It is.